[00:00:00 - 00:00:02] (thunder rumbling) [00:00:02 - 00:00:04] - Back now to Dr. Dennis McKenna. [00:00:04 - 00:00:06] And we were talking about plants [00:00:06 - 00:00:08] and the fact that they were here and I said, [00:00:08 - 00:00:12] well, no commandments against interacting with the plants, [00:00:12 - 00:00:14] or as you pointed out earlier, [00:00:14 - 00:00:16] having a relationship with them. [00:00:16 - 00:00:18] We have, it's been a co-evolution. [00:00:18 - 00:00:20] The plants have been here probably [00:00:20 - 00:00:24] before the walking things, but we're both here. [00:00:24 - 00:00:28] And they're here to be used or looked at or admired [00:00:28 - 00:00:31] or perhaps chewed on or I don't know. [00:00:31 - 00:00:34] What is, what do you think is intended [00:00:34 - 00:00:37] for human beings and plants? [00:00:37 - 00:00:41] - Well, again, you keep using this word intention. [00:00:41 - 00:00:44] I don't think anybody is running the show. [00:00:44 - 00:00:46] I think that this is sort of an organic process [00:00:46 - 00:00:51] that's going forward, you know, evolutionarily. [00:00:51 - 00:00:55] The thing you have to understand about plants [00:00:55 - 00:00:58] is that they're very different than animals. [00:00:58 - 00:01:01] I mean, that seems like an obvious statement, [00:01:01 - 00:01:05] but one of the ways and the way that they interact [00:01:05 - 00:01:07] with the world and experience the world [00:01:07 - 00:01:10] is very different than we do. [00:01:10 - 00:01:13] One famous botanist made the statements [00:01:13 - 00:01:18] that plants have substituted biosynthesis for behavior. [00:01:18 - 00:01:23] Now, what he meant by that is that plants, [00:01:23 - 00:01:26] because they can photosynthesize, [00:01:26 - 00:01:28] they make their own food. [00:01:28 - 00:01:32] And as a result, they don't have, [00:01:32 - 00:01:35] they don't have to go foraging for food [00:01:35 - 00:01:37] because they can make it from sunlight [00:01:37 - 00:01:39] and carbon dioxide and water. [00:01:39 - 00:01:42] One of the consequences of that is that they make [00:01:42 - 00:01:46] a vast variety of chemical compounds. [00:01:46 - 00:01:48] They are virtuoso chemists. [00:01:48 - 00:01:52] And in the same way that animals interact [00:01:52 - 00:01:54] with their environment through behavior, [00:01:54 - 00:01:59] through the famous fly, flee or fight reactions, [00:01:59 - 00:02:02] these sorts of things, plants interact [00:02:02 - 00:02:04] with their environment through chemistry. [00:02:04 - 00:02:07] And they communicate with other organisms [00:02:07 - 00:02:09] in their environment, bacteria in the soil, [00:02:09 - 00:02:14] fungi in the soil, other plants, insects, birds, [00:02:14 - 00:02:17] other animals that may feed on them, [00:02:17 - 00:02:21] and human beings through these chemical messengers, [00:02:21 - 00:02:24] through these molecular messengers. [00:02:24 - 00:02:29] And the molecular messengers, if you speak in a, [00:02:29 - 00:02:35] figurative sense, they speak to organisms on many levels. [00:02:35 - 00:02:39] They happen to also make chemical messengers [00:02:39 - 00:02:42] that resemble our own neurotransmitters. [00:02:42 - 00:02:46] And that's where it gets interesting for us [00:02:46 - 00:02:49] for this particular topic, because then you're talking [00:02:49 - 00:02:52] about plants that literally talk to you. [00:02:52 - 00:02:57] And they don't say anything, but when you ingest them, [00:02:57 - 00:03:00] their neurotransmitter-like chemicals interact [00:03:00 - 00:03:02] with your neurotransmitter systems, [00:03:02 - 00:03:08] and you get some very interesting results. [00:03:08 - 00:03:13] And I think in some sense, you're seeing the world [00:03:13 - 00:03:15] kind of the way they see it. [00:03:15 - 00:03:19] I mean, I don't say that they use these neurotransmitters [00:03:19 - 00:03:24] for perception, but this process of chemically mediated [00:03:24 - 00:03:29] coevolution between plants and humans and all organisms [00:03:29 - 00:03:35] is a concept that I think needs to be explored. [00:03:35 - 00:03:41] There is a field of science called chemical ecology, [00:03:41 - 00:03:45] which is basically, this is the territory we're in here, [00:03:45 - 00:03:49] the way that chemical systems are used to mediate [00:03:49 - 00:03:52] relationships between organisms. [00:03:52 - 00:03:56] And it's a two-way street. [00:03:56 - 00:04:01] The plants, we largely value plants, if you think about it, [00:04:01 - 00:04:04] or the chemical compounds they contain, [00:04:04 - 00:04:09] whether they be nutrients or cellulose, which are fibers [00:04:09 - 00:04:14] that go into textiles, or medicinal compounds [00:04:14 - 00:04:19] that we may use, or these more neuroactive type compounds. [00:04:19 - 00:04:20] - Or as you said in the beginning, nutrition. [00:04:20 - 00:04:22] And again, then I proffer the word intended, [00:04:22 - 00:04:26] because whether it's a plant or an animal, [00:04:26 - 00:04:30] these are all things that coevolved with us, [00:04:30 - 00:04:37] and even the biblical scholars will say that the plants [00:04:37 - 00:04:40] and the animals were put here for our use. [00:04:40 - 00:04:43] Now, you can take that or not, but the intended does seem [00:04:43 - 00:04:46] like a reasonable word to me. [00:04:46 - 00:04:50] - Well, if it's intended, I guess the question is, [00:04:50 - 00:04:53] by whom was it intended? [00:04:53 - 00:04:55] - Oh, we can have a conversation about that if you want. [00:04:55 - 00:04:56] - Right. (laughing) [00:04:56 - 00:05:01] I mean, is it God that's running the show, [00:05:01 - 00:05:06] or is it dome-headed beings in geosynchronous orbit, [00:05:06 - 00:05:08] or is it Gaia? [00:05:08 - 00:05:11] I mean, I'm more comfortable with the Gaia notion [00:05:11 - 00:05:15] that the whole biosphere is in some sense an organism. [00:05:15 - 00:05:19] You can think of the entire biosphere. [00:05:19 - 00:05:24] I mean, it's really a mega organism or a super organism. [00:05:24 - 00:05:27] And just as in a cell in the body, [00:05:27 - 00:05:31] all of the processes of a cell between, say, [00:05:31 - 00:05:33] what's going on in the nucleus and what's going on [00:05:33 - 00:05:35] in the cytoplasm and on the membrane, [00:05:35 - 00:05:38] that's all controlled and coordinated [00:05:38 - 00:05:41] through chemical messengers that are shut laying back [00:05:41 - 00:05:44] and forth from the membrane to the cytoplasm [00:05:44 - 00:05:47] to the nucleus and so on. [00:05:47 - 00:05:49] The same thing is going on in the biosphere. [00:05:49 - 00:05:54] The biosphere is permeated with chemical messengers. [00:05:54 - 00:05:54] - Absolutely. [00:05:54 - 00:05:57] - And many of them are made by plants, [00:05:57 - 00:05:59] and plants are very good at it. [00:05:59 - 00:06:02] I mean, they use these molecular messengers [00:06:02 - 00:06:07] to establish relationships with all sorts of organisms [00:06:07 - 00:06:08] in the environment. [00:06:08 - 00:06:09] - Well, that makes a war. [00:06:09 - 00:06:11] - Insects, for example, insects are probably [00:06:11 - 00:06:12] the primary example. [00:06:12 - 00:06:13] - Okay. [00:06:13 - 00:06:16] - Plants depend on insects for their pollination [00:06:16 - 00:06:17] in many cases. [00:06:17 - 00:06:21] And the insects, of course, get benefits from the plant [00:06:21 - 00:06:24] in the form of nectar and pollen, [00:06:24 - 00:06:26] which they collect as food sources. [00:06:26 - 00:06:31] So it's a symbiosis, this notion of a symbiotic relationship, [00:06:31 - 00:06:34] which has been very extensively studied [00:06:34 - 00:06:36] between plants and insects, [00:06:36 - 00:06:40] not so extensively studied between plants and humans, [00:06:40 - 00:06:44] but that's the key term, I think, [00:06:44 - 00:06:48] that you have to come at it from that angle. [00:06:48 - 00:06:52] What we're looking at here is a plant-human symbiosis [00:06:52 - 00:06:57] that has impacts on the plants and impacts on us. [00:06:57 - 00:07:00] - So then a war on plants is really screwing [00:07:00 - 00:07:01] with Mother Nature. [00:07:01 - 00:07:04] - Well, it's a really misguided idea. [00:07:04 - 00:07:07] I mean, what gives us, we're only one species [00:07:07 - 00:07:09] in the biosphere, what gives us the right [00:07:09 - 00:07:13] to decree that some other species, [00:07:13 - 00:07:16] because it happens to be a plant that produces a chemical [00:07:16 - 00:07:21] that our society has not been able to come to terms with, [00:07:21 - 00:07:23] do we then have the right to decree [00:07:23 - 00:07:28] that this particular plant should be exterminated [00:07:28 - 00:07:30] from the face of the Earth? [00:07:30 - 00:07:31] I don't think so. [00:07:31 - 00:07:34] I mean, if we were talking about an ethnic group of humans, [00:07:34 - 00:07:35] this wouldn't be tolerated. [00:07:35 - 00:07:39] - Okay, then instead of, bearing in mind the fact [00:07:39 - 00:07:41] that we cannot come to terms with it, [00:07:41 - 00:07:43] instead of going to war against it, [00:07:43 - 00:07:45] how do we come to terms with it? [00:07:45 - 00:07:49] - How do we come to terms with it? [00:07:49 - 00:07:54] Well, for one thing, again, going back to making [00:07:54 - 00:07:57] a distinction between plants and chemicals, [00:07:57 - 00:08:00] I think that's part of the thing. [00:08:00 - 00:08:04] And you say, okay, if you wanna grow marijuana [00:08:04 - 00:08:06] in your backyard, if you wanna grow mushrooms, [00:08:06 - 00:08:10] if you wanna grow opium even, we don't care. [00:08:10 - 00:08:15] Whatever you do as a gardener is not of concern to us. [00:08:15 - 00:08:18] We're going to focus on the harder drugs, [00:08:18 - 00:08:21] the drugs where there have to be infrastructures [00:08:21 - 00:08:26] of creation and distribution, and you have to have, [00:08:26 - 00:08:28] that's one aspect of it. [00:08:28 - 00:08:32] And then the other aspect of it is simply education. [00:08:32 - 00:08:35] I think you have to give people the tools [00:08:35 - 00:08:38] to make informed choices about, number one, [00:08:38 - 00:08:41] whether to use drugs, number two, [00:08:41 - 00:08:46] if the answer to number one is yes, I want to use drugs, [00:08:46 - 00:08:50] the second question is which drugs are you going to use, [00:08:50 - 00:08:53] and the third question is how are you going to use them? [00:08:53 - 00:08:56] And this is the problem with the war on drugs [00:08:56 - 00:09:01] and the whole dialogue is there's this big scare [00:09:02 - 00:09:07] category called drugs that all things are put into. [00:09:07 - 00:09:10] Well, there are drugs and there are drugs. [00:09:10 - 00:09:12] There are many different types of drugs, [00:09:12 - 00:09:17] and it seems that the drugs of the, [00:09:17 - 00:09:21] the drug warriors have set up this big scary bugaboo [00:09:21 - 00:09:26] called drugs, but of course they don't include in that [00:09:26 - 00:09:28] the drugs that they happen to favor, [00:09:28 - 00:09:30] which are tobacco, alcohol. [00:09:30 - 00:09:32] These things are also drugs. [00:09:32 - 00:09:33] - Sure they are. [00:09:33 - 00:09:36] - So I think we have to have a more rational dialogue [00:09:36 - 00:09:41] about the subject and we have to stop scaring people [00:09:41 - 00:09:46] and try to give them the tools to make informed decisions. [00:09:46 - 00:09:50] It all comes down to education, and it's like saying, [00:09:50 - 00:09:54] well, you don't have to use drugs to have a full life [00:09:54 - 00:09:57] and to have a completely fulfilled life. [00:09:57 - 00:10:00] If you make that choice, fine. [00:10:00 - 00:10:02] If you do choose to use substances, [00:10:02 - 00:10:07] know, be careful about which relationships you form [00:10:07 - 00:10:10] with these substances and the circumstances [00:10:10 - 00:10:12] under which you use them. [00:10:12 - 00:10:16] It's no different than forming relationships with people. [00:10:16 - 00:10:19] And Andrew Wilde said all this years ago [00:10:19 - 00:10:21] in his book, "The Natural Mind." [00:10:21 - 00:10:25] I mean, nobody listened then, nobody's listening now, [00:10:25 - 00:10:27] but that is the solution. [00:10:29 - 00:10:31] Nobody wants their kids to go out [00:10:31 - 00:10:34] and get messed up with drugs. [00:10:34 - 00:10:40] But the key thing is, if you promulgate [00:10:40 - 00:10:42] what is essentially misinformation, [00:10:42 - 00:10:45] I mean, let's not put too far, find a point on it, [00:10:45 - 00:10:47] let's call it lies. [00:10:47 - 00:10:50] Kids are not stupid, they're going to find out. [00:10:50 - 00:10:53] And then they will disregard what you say. [00:10:53 - 00:10:56] So they say, well, you lied about marijuana, [00:10:56 - 00:10:58] so you must be lying about heroin. [00:10:58 - 00:11:00] - And they've been saying that for years. [00:11:00 - 00:11:01] - And they've been saying that for years. [00:11:01 - 00:11:02] - Yeah, nothing makes me angrier. [00:11:02 - 00:11:05] - Why not have a reasonable debate? [00:11:05 - 00:11:07] - I know, I know, I know. [00:11:07 - 00:11:10] Nothing through the years has made me angrier [00:11:10 - 00:11:12] than the lies that are told about marijuana [00:11:12 - 00:11:14] because of course they then cause the young people [00:11:14 - 00:11:17] to just go right on up the chain. [00:11:17 - 00:11:20] And before you know it, the cops put them [00:11:20 - 00:11:22] in the back of a car with crack cocaine [00:11:22 - 00:11:24] and then off they go, part of the system, in jail. [00:11:24 - 00:11:26] - Yes, that's right. [00:11:26 - 00:11:30] I mean, the laws that are designed to control [00:11:30 - 00:11:33] the drug problem are having a worse impact [00:11:33 - 00:11:36] than the problem itself. [00:11:36 - 00:11:39] I think Jimmy Carter said this, if that's the case, [00:11:39 - 00:11:42] then we need to rethink this whole dialogue. [00:11:42 - 00:11:45] And in terms of the psychedelics, [00:11:45 - 00:11:50] I think that they do need to be used in a ritual context [00:11:50 - 00:11:52] or in a fairly structured context. [00:11:52 - 00:11:56] And the use of guides or more experienced people [00:11:56 - 00:12:01] who can kind of structure the experience, [00:12:01 - 00:12:04] much as it goes on in shamanism, [00:12:04 - 00:12:06] and shamanism is really the model. [00:12:06 - 00:12:09] I don't think we can reproduce it, [00:12:09 - 00:12:13] but I think we can take a few pages from that book [00:12:13 - 00:12:14] and try and implement it. [00:12:14 - 00:12:19] And I can envision in a more rational society [00:12:21 - 00:12:24] a situation where there would be a place [00:12:24 - 00:12:27] or there would be a center where one could go [00:12:27 - 00:12:30] and have these experiences and it would be legal [00:12:30 - 00:12:34] and it would be beneficial to people. [00:12:34 - 00:12:38] - We are not now that rational, nor are we even close. [00:12:38 - 00:12:42] How far in the future, if you can just sort of stand back [00:12:42 - 00:12:46] and observe our progression socially, [00:12:46 - 00:12:49] how far in the future do you envision something like this [00:12:50 - 00:12:51] might be a reality? [00:12:51 - 00:12:53] - Well, it's hard to say. [00:12:53 - 00:12:58] I mean, it's really very hard to say because I don't see, [00:12:58 - 00:13:03] I mean, I think that the people, as almost always, [00:13:03 - 00:13:05] the people are way out in front of their government [00:13:05 - 00:13:07] on this issue. [00:13:07 - 00:13:12] Most people feel that medical marijuana, for example, [00:13:12 - 00:13:15] should be available to people that need it, [00:13:15 - 00:13:19] to people that have diseases or chronic problems [00:13:19 - 00:13:23] that, excuse me, that this could help. [00:13:23 - 00:13:27] I think most people feel that rather than being put in jail, [00:13:27 - 00:13:29] people should be given access to treatments. [00:13:29 - 00:13:34] As their first option, there have been propositions [00:13:34 - 00:13:36] passed in California to this effect [00:13:36 - 00:13:38] and a couple of other states. [00:13:38 - 00:13:41] So the people have a much more reasonable approach [00:13:41 - 00:13:45] to the problem than the government does. [00:13:45 - 00:13:50] The problem is the government tends to be slow to change [00:13:50 - 00:13:57] and there's also a vested interest in keeping things [00:13:57 - 00:13:58] the way they are. [00:13:58 - 00:14:00] - Well, for example, you mentioned Jimmy Carter. [00:14:00 - 00:14:02] A lot of people thought that when Jimmy Carter [00:14:02 - 00:14:05] became president, there'd probably be a move [00:14:05 - 00:14:07] to legalize marijuana. [00:14:07 - 00:14:09] Well, lo and behold, didn't happen. [00:14:09 - 00:14:10] - It didn't happen. [00:14:10 - 00:14:12] - Then people thought, well, next time we get a Democrat [00:14:12 - 00:14:13] in office, it'll happen then. [00:14:13 - 00:14:15] Lo and behold, didn't happen. [00:14:15 - 00:14:20] - Right, because again, I think this is a function [00:14:20 - 00:14:25] of the fact that it's very hard for politicians [00:14:25 - 00:14:27] to come out on this issue. [00:14:27 - 00:14:30] Even if they do feel that it's misguided, [00:14:30 - 00:14:35] anytime you make a statement that is in the least [00:14:35 - 00:14:40] perceived as being pro-drug, you're vilified. [00:14:40 - 00:14:42] You know, this is the problem. [00:14:42 - 00:14:46] And politicians as a group are not a particularly [00:14:46 - 00:14:48] brave bunch of people. [00:14:48 - 00:14:53] I mean, their decisions are based on what they think [00:14:53 - 00:14:55] is gonna get them reelected. [00:14:55 - 00:14:59] And there is such a vocal anti-drug majority, [00:14:59 - 00:15:02] or minority, actually, I think it is a minority, [00:15:02 - 00:15:04] but they're very vocal. [00:15:04 - 00:15:09] And so, you know, if you say, well, maybe we should take [00:15:09 - 00:15:14] a different approach, then immediately they're pounced upon. [00:15:14 - 00:15:17] And no rational conversation is possible. [00:15:17 - 00:15:21] - Doctor, I lived in a state where there was [00:15:21 - 00:15:22] a rational moment. [00:15:22 - 00:15:26] I lived in Alaska when the Alaskan Supreme Court [00:15:26 - 00:15:29] struck down the laws against marijuana. [00:15:29 - 00:15:32] And it became legal to grow your own plants, [00:15:32 - 00:15:35] and to have, I can't remember, an ounce or two [00:15:35 - 00:15:37] for your own personal use. [00:15:37 - 00:15:41] And that was a great success for a while in Alaska. [00:15:41 - 00:15:44] But then all of a sudden, from Washington, D.C., [00:15:44 - 00:15:48] they came rushing in, and all conversation stopped. [00:15:48 - 00:15:52] The drug war was in full force, and Alaska reversed it all. [00:15:52 - 00:15:57] - Well, again, this is sort of the irony. [00:15:57 - 00:16:02] You know, the current administration and the position [00:16:02 - 00:16:07] of the conservatives traditionally is get government [00:16:07 - 00:16:09] off people's back. [00:16:09 - 00:16:11] And what I actually think they mean is get the government [00:16:11 - 00:16:13] off corporations' backs. [00:16:13 - 00:16:14] (laughing) [00:16:14 - 00:16:18] You know, put, I mean, when it comes to what we do [00:16:18 - 00:16:22] in our bedrooms, or what we put in our bodies, [00:16:22 - 00:16:25] or how we handle our reproductive choices, [00:16:25 - 00:16:28] you know, these regimes are very, you know, [00:16:28 - 00:16:30] very much totalitarian. [00:16:30 - 00:16:33] They want to control that kind of behavior. [00:16:33 - 00:16:35] They think it's very much their business. [00:16:35 - 00:16:38] And, you know, this is where the conflict is. [00:16:38 - 00:16:39] - I take it you would consider yourself [00:16:39 - 00:16:41] politically a libertarian. [00:16:41 - 00:16:44] - I'm not, no, I'm not a libertarian. [00:16:44 - 00:16:47] I mean, about the only thing I agree with [00:16:47 - 00:16:49] with the libertarian agenda is the notion [00:16:49 - 00:16:53] that these substances should be regulated in a sane way. [00:16:53 - 00:16:57] No, I think government has a place in people's lives. [00:16:57 - 00:17:00] I, you know, I'm basically a liberal, I guess. [00:17:00 - 00:17:04] I think government should be concentrating on helping people. [00:17:04 - 00:17:07] And, you know, making people's lives better. [00:17:07 - 00:17:11] If you pay taxes, why not get some benefit from it? [00:17:11 - 00:17:14] I mean, what bothers me is that my taxes go for, [00:17:14 - 00:17:17] you know, the war in Colombia, [00:17:17 - 00:17:19] which is not being talked about in the media, [00:17:19 - 00:17:24] and is the war, you know, or the missile defense system. [00:17:24 - 00:17:28] You know, this completely absurd technological boondoggle [00:17:28 - 00:17:31] that most of the experts say will never work. [00:17:31 - 00:17:33] I mean, these are the things that I would rather not [00:17:33 - 00:17:35] have my taxes spammed on. [00:17:35 - 00:17:38] - Well, I agree with you completely. [00:17:38 - 00:17:40] Although you're, certainly your view [00:17:40 - 00:17:44] with regard to these substances is very libertarian. [00:17:44 - 00:17:46] And you say otherwise, you're a liberal, [00:17:46 - 00:17:48] which would, which mean that, [00:17:48 - 00:17:50] would generally mean to a lot of people [00:17:50 - 00:17:53] that you want government involved in your life [00:17:53 - 00:17:54] in a lot of areas. [00:17:54 - 00:17:56] - But not in my personal life. [00:17:56 - 00:17:59] I don't want them telling me, you know, [00:17:59 - 00:18:03] I want them to be concerned with the public health aspects. [00:18:03 - 00:18:07] Of drug, of drug use and all of these other things. [00:18:07 - 00:18:10] But I don't really want them to say, you know, [00:18:10 - 00:18:14] if you smoke this herb or if you drink this plant, [00:18:14 - 00:18:15] you're going to jail. [00:18:15 - 00:18:19] And I think, you know, it's just absurd. [00:18:19 - 00:18:23] I'd rather have them giving, you know, [00:18:23 - 00:18:28] a more intelligent level of support to that sort of thing. [00:18:28 - 00:18:29] - All right. [00:18:29 - 00:18:31] You know, I would very much like to allow [00:18:31 - 00:18:34] some of the audience after the break to ask you questions. [00:18:34 - 00:18:35] If you're up for that. [00:18:35 - 00:18:36] - Sure. [00:18:36 - 00:18:37] - Are you? Okay, good. [00:18:37 - 00:18:38] Stay right there then. [00:18:38 - 00:18:40] My guest is Dr. Dennis McKenna, [00:18:40 - 00:18:42] the brother of the late Terrence McKenna, [00:18:42 - 00:18:45] who appeared on the show many, many times. [00:18:45 - 00:18:48] And they're both obviously brilliant minds. [00:18:48 - 00:18:51] I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coast AM [00:18:51 - 00:18:54] screaming through the night like a freight train. [00:18:54 - 00:18:57] Glad to have you along as a passenger. [00:18:57 - 00:18:59] Sit down, stick around. [00:19:00 - 00:19:04] ♪ Sweet dreams are made of this ♪ [00:19:04 - 00:19:07] ♪ Who am I to disagree ♪ [00:19:07 - 00:19:11] ♪ I travel the world and the seven seas ♪ [00:19:11 - 00:19:15] ♪ Everybody's looking for something ♪ [00:19:15 - 00:19:19] ♪ Some of them want to use you ♪ [00:19:19 - 00:19:23] ♪ Some of them want to get used by you ♪ [00:19:23 - 00:19:26] ♪ Some of them want to abuse you ♪ [00:19:26 - 00:19:30] ♪ Some of them want to be abused ♪ [00:19:30 - 00:19:33] (upbeat music)