[00:00:00 - 00:00:10] drug experiences. I've had some amount of success with it. If anybody who's done DMT would want to try it, I can run you through the technique. [00:00:10 - 00:00:24] Have you done DMT? No. I'd be interested. I'm very, I mean I urge you to, but I'm very skeptical. And my machines too. I mean I've done them all. [00:00:24 - 00:00:32] I've done 10 minutes of it and you're lying there thinking, "My God, I'd like to go smoke a joint." [00:00:32 - 00:00:41] I just want to ask a question from a referral point of view once again. I know you're good with rest of the things, but I have a real interest in being concerned [00:00:41 - 00:00:54] about the people that are most needed. And I'm speaking for single-guide hospitals, women's travel, it's nice to have a last-time step up your nose. You know, people notice things like that. [00:00:54 - 00:01:17] [laughter] [00:01:17 - 00:01:37] Sure it is. [00:01:37 - 00:01:51] That's a great idea. [00:01:51 - 00:01:55] Yeah. [00:01:55 - 00:02:00] And make a teacher of the exactly. [00:02:00 - 00:02:11] Yes. [00:02:11 - 00:02:26] See this lady. [00:02:26 - 00:02:41] Well, but this against the law thing, let me talk a minute about that. How can it be against the law if you have it in every brain walking around? [00:02:41 - 00:02:45] No, I just mean logistically if you want to sell it to the nail, you're putting yourself at great legal risk. [00:02:45 - 00:03:00] However, see, things like psilocybin and DMT, the reason they're illegal is because there was panic in California in '66. [00:03:00 - 00:03:16] The California Assembly ran through an anti-drug law in which all these things were named, but no medical or scientific data was offered to show there was anything wrong with them. [00:03:16 - 00:03:30] Basically, they were guilty as charged because they caused hallucinations. Well, then about three months later, the feds decided there needed to be a federal anti-heliocentrism law, [00:03:30 - 00:03:46] and they simply imported the California statute directly into federal law. So it is conceivable that if one had enough money and it takes a lot of money, you could beat the, [00:03:46 - 00:04:02] you could force a reexamination of the drug laws by simply saying, number one, there is no scientific evidence that there's anything wrong with DMT. Number two, there's plenty of scientific evidence that DMT occurs normally in human metabolism. [00:04:02 - 00:04:24] And how therefore can it be kept illegal? Unless the plant is specifically named, but the Attorney General, at his own discretion, can add those plants to the schedule list without asking him. [00:04:24 - 00:04:43] Yeah. [00:04:43 - 00:04:58] No, well, it's economically driven. I mean, if you had DMT, you could sell a mountain of it. You don't get many repeat customers because if you sell somebody a gram, that's 20 hits. [00:04:58 - 00:05:19] Most people set half of it aside for their great grandchildren. This is not a drug of abuse. Let me point that out to you. It's sort of a drug of anti-abuse. I know people just say, you ask them, what's your favorite drug? [00:05:19 - 00:05:38] They say, oh, DMT, I love it, love it. Well, when did you do it last? Well, 1968. I'm still processing. [00:05:38 - 00:05:52] Yo-hem-bane. Is that what you asked about? I'm not sure that yo-hem-bane is an MAO inhibitor. You should look it up in the Merck manual, and that's, it always does. There are many things which are weak MAO inhibitors. [00:05:52 - 00:06:14] The easiest source for an MAO inhibitor, though, is the Pagamen harmala, and also there is a plant in North America. Oh, no, I'm sorry. It also is Pagamen harmala. Pagamen harmala grows over vast areas of New Mexico, Nevada, [00:06:14 - 00:06:24] and it yields a bright yellow dye, which is actually the harvane itself. It is the dye hemorrhoid. Yeah. [00:06:24 - 00:06:51] As one who has survived somehow more than two decades of all kinds of hallucinations, and felt that for me personally, it's an issue that I have to clean up, I have let nobody bring up, and you have not brought up the possibility or discussed in any way of any concerning drugs. [00:06:51 - 00:06:54] I would like to hear your views on that. [00:06:54 - 00:07:22] Well, we should certainly talk about casualties and dangers. Addiction doesn't really figure in here in the ordinary sense of like opiate and nicotine addiction. You know, cannabis is the most addicting of these minor and near psychedelic, and it's only psychologically addicting. [00:07:22 - 00:07:42] I mean, I found this out because a couple of years ago, I actually quit for two months after not drawing an unstoned breath for 25 years, and all that happened was that I read more, and it's not clear that that's my problem. [00:07:42 - 00:08:02] So, but danger we need to talk about, and that brings up the question, how should one do these things? How can you do it and gain maximum benefit and minimum wear and tear on your psyche and your body? [00:08:02 - 00:08:27] The first thing is, inform yourself. Inform yourself. The first stop on the psychedelic trip is the library. There are very, very deep books on these subjects, on the anthropology, the pharmacology, the psychology, the quantum mechanics of drug activity. [00:08:27 - 00:08:44] Inform yourself, and then it's not about taking every drug in the book, and you know, people reel them off, say, "Well, I did junk. I did this. I did that." It's no points. You don't get points for that. [00:08:44 - 00:09:03] What you have to do is, and here's a piece straight out of Castaneda, you have to find your ally. You have to find what works for you, and if you take a drug or a plant and you have a horrible experience, you don't really need to go back and back. [00:09:03 - 00:09:30] The other thing is, danger lies in the direction of combinations. These are called synergies by pharmacologists, and if your idea of a big evening is to, you know, shoot 100 milliliters of ketamine and then drop some MDMA and a little 2C-B an hour later [00:09:30 - 00:09:49] and then bring on some acid of undetermined provenance and so forth. Well, then, and I say, "Well, how was it?" They say, "Hey, it was far out." But the point is, this can never be reproduced, and these things are very dangerous. [00:09:49 - 00:10:06] They synergize each other in unexpected ways. I mean, my God, the psilocybin and DMT have never been studied. Do you think their relationship to Romilar and Nardil has been looked at very carefully? I don't think so. [00:10:06 - 00:10:30] Then, how to take it? And I represent a faction on that. I believe that you should take it with as little company as you can stand, basically. A lot of people like group work. I don't. [00:10:30 - 00:10:50] But then I don't like groups generally. I mean, I'm basically a loner, and if I take psychedelics with somebody, I worry. I worry about them, and it keeps me on the surface. [00:10:50 - 00:11:11] And I've had many psychedelic experiences where in the middle of it, it has passed through my mind, "Gee, I'm sure glad nobody is here to see this because I'm sure it would alarm them, and then we'd have a crisis." [00:11:11 - 00:11:31] So, my style, I mean, I'll take anything. If they see it in a low dose and hang out, something interesting is going on. But the serious stuff goes on in darkness, in silence, and that people go through the roof. [00:11:31 - 00:11:47] I mean, you don't even listen to music. That's right. In darkness, in silence, in a comfortable space, and that may mean in your apartment in Manhattan, or it may mean up a tree in Yosemite, whatever your thing is. [00:11:47 - 00:12:07] And then I always use cannabis. Cannabis is your navigation tool, your reality check, your everything. I roll up the bombers, and I lay them out in front of me, and I have my mojo bag and a few things like that. [00:12:07 - 00:12:24] From the moment I take it, I'm in sacral space. And this isn't even a rule followed in the Amazon. I mean, it totally blew my mind. In some ayahuasca circles, people would sit around talking and talking. [00:12:24 - 00:12:38] Then everybody would take ayahuasca. There would be a sacral ceremonial moment. Everybody would take the ayahuasca, and then yak yak yak, and motorcycle parts, and what are the missionaries up to, and who's approving who, and yak yak yak. [00:12:38 - 00:12:58] And then at 30 minutes on the dot, the shaman would begin to whistle. Everybody would shut up. And within a minute, we'd be gone. But the way I like to do it, and this is a good Catholic method for those of you who are recovering Catholics. [00:12:58 - 00:13:22] I take it, and then I sit in my space, and I carry out what in catechism class we were taught is called an examination of conscience. This is where you think about all the ways you've screwed up and all the people you've screwed over, and you basically anticipate a bad trip, is what it is. [00:13:22 - 00:13:40] You work, you say, what is the worst thing that could happen to me on this trip based on my current state of my psyche and my relationships with other people? Well, by the time this stuff actually begins to work, you've dealt with that. [00:13:40 - 00:13:59] And, you know, some people say they take mushrooms and within 20 minutes we were tripping hard, tripping hard. I don't understand what that is about. It takes an hour and 20 minutes on the dot. It always has. I don't expect it to ever come faster. [00:13:59 - 00:14:17] And I get into a kind of a zone where it's like it's nibbling at the edges, but it's not quite manifest. And then I smoke the first bomber. And usually that brings it in. That brings it in. [00:14:17 - 00:14:37] And I also, I speak to it. I speak to it. I invoke it, I suppose. And in my own way, I don't know if it will pass gardenerian mustard, but I say to it, I say, show yourself. Show yourself. [00:14:37 - 00:14:54] And it's very, at that point, it's very erotic. It's like a bail dance is what it is. It is a bail dance. The girlfriend in the other dimension, the mushroom. [00:14:54 - 00:15:07] Once I said to it, to her, I almost said, once I said to her, I said, what should I call you? And she said, call me Dorothy. [00:15:07 - 00:15:31] So I invoke it and it comes, it comes. And then, and then we're off. And sometimes it's easy and loving. And sometimes it's different. I remember one very epic trip I had where I had tossed out a big compost pile from growing mushrooms years ago in another country. [00:15:31 - 00:15:48] Actually, it was a past life I'm now recalling. But anyway, I tossed out this stuff and this thing grew this humongous mushroom. And I had taken mushrooms the previous Saturday. I had taken a full dose, which is five dried grams. [00:15:48 - 00:16:08] So I thought I want to take mushrooms again this Saturday. But I, I think I may have picked up a tolerance. So I'll just take nine grams. And this is where the learning takes place. Treasure your mistakes. [00:16:08 - 00:16:24] So the thing, it's like I'm sitting there and suddenly I realized, oh my God, it's coming at me. It's 100 miles wide. It's 10 miles high. And it's just rolling toward me. [00:16:24 - 00:16:42] And I barely had time to lay down. That's how fast it, and a voice said, prepare the storm is about to hit the beach. And I laid down and it was just, it was like a tornado hitting. [00:16:42 - 00:16:59] And at one point I opened my eyes and there was this woman in a full bondage jacket with piercings and rubber panties and the whole thing. [00:16:59 - 00:17:20] And she and I was lying there between her legs. She was standing upright and she put her face right down to mine. And she said, is it strong enough for you asshole? [00:17:20 - 00:17:34] And I replied, yes. And she said, and then she said, they say it helps to close your eyes, cowboy. [00:17:34 - 00:17:52] And I later in thinking about that trip, I realized the reason the goddess, the reason the mushroom addressed me as cowboy is because that's most people mushrooms have met have been cowboys and cowgirls. [00:17:52 - 00:18:06] Because they're the people who follow the cows. And most people have encountered this thing in the past. You know, Maria Sabina, the mushroom shamanists of Oaxaca, claimed not to have been initiated. [00:18:06 - 00:18:16] She claimed that as a child left to watch the sheep and the cows, she had been hungry and had gotten into eating mushrooms. [00:18:16 - 00:18:29] So I haven't lost my thread. This is a safety course. I haven't forgotten that. Once you get launched out in there, then there are tricks for navigation. [00:18:29 - 00:18:47] And the two tricks that are indispensable. Number one, I've already told you, have cannabis ready because if you get into a place that you don't like, you can you can jet out of there by just taking a toke or two. [00:18:47 - 00:19:06] The other thing is, if you get into a place you don't like, chance. Don't do what most Tonkies do, which is scrunch, assume the fetal position, say, I can stand this. How many hours is this going to go out? [00:19:06 - 00:19:11] Don't do that. Sit up, take a breath and belt it out. [00:19:11 - 00:19:26] Drumming is good too. But I really think it's important to oxygenate your body. It's very important to move the breath through. And there are hard places. [00:19:26 - 00:19:37] If there weren't hard places, people wouldn't be so terrified of this stuff. So when you get through a heart to a hard place, first of all, don't be an idiot. [00:19:37 - 00:19:43] Don't abandon yourself to fear just because somebody put something ugly in front of you. [00:19:43 - 00:19:52] I mean, people put stuff that's ugly in front of you every day. And all you say is, yuck. So this also works there. [00:19:52 - 00:19:58] There are there are strange places and we each have our own private hells. [00:19:58 - 00:20:09] I mean, there's a place I go to nearly on every ayahuasca trip that I call the meat locker. And, you know, the less said about it, the less. [00:20:09 - 00:20:17] But every time I feel it begin to swerve back, I say, uh oh, time to fire up a little sinsemea here. [00:20:17 - 00:20:31] Yeah, same with the no meat lockers. Yeah. I fast. I don't call it fasting. I just don't eat for six hours. Empty your stomach. [00:20:31 - 00:20:33] And then the other thing is... [00:20:33 - 00:20:42] What if you think of one of your life's, you know, saving arsenal is your stomach is going and your problems are getting bigger and bigger. [00:20:42 - 00:20:52] Your stomach should be empty throughout. And then at the end of the day, the way I do it is I usually start about eight at night. [00:20:52 - 00:20:59] I'm alone always. And I go to one and by one it's over. [00:20:59 - 00:21:06] And then what I do is I eat a bowl of granola or something like that. Don't sleep on an empty stomach. [00:21:06 - 00:21:14] Don't, because then you'll wake up the next morning raw and rocky. And it's not that the mushroom did that. [00:21:14 - 00:21:26] It's that you slept with a protein, with a protein dip. So then eat your favorite food at the end of the trip. [00:21:26 - 00:21:32] You made a personal record saying MDMA. How far did you go? [00:21:32 - 00:21:42] MDMA is a cycloside amphetamine. It's a it's a and what are called empathogen. [00:21:42 - 00:21:49] They're drugs which encourage exchange of feelings and that sort of thing. [00:21:49 - 00:21:56] Under rare circumstances, you can squeeze a kind of wobbling hallucination out of it. [00:21:56 - 00:22:08] But it's not it's its purpose. I think it's different. It's for sorting out relationships, assisted psychotherapy and having a good time. [00:22:08 - 00:22:19] But it would be crazy to take MDMA as a hallucinogen because it's like entering a bicycle in a Ferrari race. [00:22:19 - 00:22:28] They're just much superior. And let me say about this, I mean, everything is my personal bias here. [00:22:28 - 00:22:38] A lot of people have said you're a hallucination nut. You're obsessed with hallucination. [00:22:38 - 00:22:48] I freely admit it. The reason I was underwhelmed by LSD, I mean, I liked it and it was certainly engaging and so. [00:22:48 - 00:22:54] But I could never hallucinate the way I wanted to. I read Havelock Ellis. [00:22:54 - 00:23:04] I wanted to see, you know, the phosphorescent palaces, the naked maidens, the silk brocades, the alien world vision. [00:23:04 - 00:23:16] And LSD, deep thoughts about things, funny ideas, strange expense, hard to get vision until you smoke black Bombay hash at the top of the trip. [00:23:16 - 00:23:25] That works. But I will defend my obsession with vision. I think the world wants to be seen. [00:23:25 - 00:23:32] I think Blake was right that the divine imagination is something be held. [00:23:32 - 00:23:39] And for me, the visions are the proof that this is not my mind. [00:23:39 - 00:23:46] And the visions are the proof that this is not simply chemical chaos in the nervous system. [00:23:46 - 00:23:56] I mean, how could chemical chaos give you something as breathtakingly beautiful and as ordered as the Sistine Chapel or the World Trade Center? [00:23:56 - 00:24:02] I mean, the hallucinations are extraordinarily ordered and beautiful. [00:24:02 - 00:24:12] And I think that this is the proof that we are reaching beyond the confines of the human personality and even the human species. [00:24:12 - 00:24:20] That this information, don't ask me how, is somehow holographically deployed throughout space. [00:24:20 - 00:24:24] And you tune it in. You tune it in. [00:24:24 - 00:24:35] And so I care about visions and if a drug doesn't cause visions, I tend to put it lower on my list. [00:24:35 - 00:24:42] I smoke a lot of cannabis, but I think that's why I do cannabis. [00:24:42 - 00:24:49] I could think on it. And I think several hours a day when I'm able to. [00:24:49 - 00:24:59] But the visual thing is for me to be in the presence of the mystery is to be in the presence of the hallucination. [00:24:59 - 00:25:05] To me, the word hallucination has no connotation of illusion. [00:25:05 - 00:25:12] It comes from a Greek root. And what it means is to wander in the mind. [00:25:12 - 00:25:17] That's what hallucination is. It's a wandering in the mind. [00:25:17 - 00:25:19] Yeah. [00:25:19 - 00:25:25] Is there a choice what the doses of LSD you took that you didn't have hallucinations? [00:25:25 - 00:25:32] Well, I took all kinds of doses. What dose of LSD did I take? I should be clear what I mean. [00:25:32 - 00:25:46] I mean, you get on LSD, even with eyes open, the little things that look like open fans that are going meep, meep, meep, meep, meep, meep, like wallpaper. [00:25:46 - 00:25:56] But LSD never gave me these architectures. It lacked meaning. [00:25:56 - 00:26:05] The LSD hallucinations looked to me like something happening in the optic nerve, not in the mind. [00:26:05 - 00:26:12] They were more like ripples and concentric circles and flashes of light. [00:26:12 - 00:26:33] What you see on psilocybin are cities, faces, palaces, machines, the stuff of cognitive process at its most expressive. [00:26:33 - 00:26:41] Is it theoretically possible to develop your consciousness level to the point that you can go there without the drug? [00:26:41 - 00:26:46] I grant the possibility, but in my heart of hearts, I don't think so. [00:26:46 - 00:26:48] What was the question? [00:26:48 - 00:26:51] The question is, can you get there on the natch? [00:26:51 - 00:27:00] I get lots of resistance because I'm willing to say just flat out, hell no. [00:27:00 - 00:27:11] And, you know, people are shocked that yoga and flagellation and being touched by Babaji and whatever. [00:27:11 - 00:27:14] I don't know. I tried it all. [00:27:14 - 00:27:21] And the other thing is, what I'm talking about, you wouldn't want to happen on the natch. [00:27:21 - 00:27:25] These are states of serious discombobulation. [00:27:25 - 00:27:29] These are not mood shifts or attitudes we're talking about. [00:27:29 - 00:27:38] I mean, if I woke up and I could do it on the natch, my first phone call would be to my friend Ralph Metzner, who's a shrink. [00:27:38 - 00:27:45] And I'd say, Ralph, we've got a problem here. [00:27:45 - 00:27:59] I, if I may, and again, I'm a guest here, I don't know even who's here or who I'm insulting, but let me unburden myself on this subject. [00:27:59 - 00:28:02] Van Morrison put it very, very well. [00:28:02 - 00:28:18] No guru, no method, no teacher, just you and me and Mother Nature in the garden, in the garden wet with rain. [00:28:18 - 00:28:22] I think all religion is a con game. [00:28:22 - 00:28:28] I think that all esoterica is a con game. [00:28:28 - 00:28:41] I think that the real secrets are self-protecting and that seeking is the way to find. [00:28:41 - 00:28:46] And take yourself more serious. [00:28:46 - 00:28:54] You are the vessel, the stage and the theater of your transformation. [00:28:54 - 00:28:58] The mushroom was very explicit on this point to me once. [00:28:58 - 00:29:12] It said, and I quote, for one human being to seek enlightenment from another is like a grain of sand on the beach, [00:29:12 - 00:29:17] seeking enlightenment from another grain of sand. [00:29:17 - 00:29:24] And my interpretation of that is that we're all as good as the best among us. [00:29:24 - 00:29:28] There is no hierarchy among human beings. [00:29:28 - 00:29:33] You know, if you've got the chromosomes, you're into the game. [00:29:33 - 00:29:43] And the task then is to accentuate primary experience, the here and now. [00:29:43 - 00:29:50] Teachings which come from far away, unsubstantiated rumors that circulate among the people. [00:29:50 - 00:29:54] Magicians have always worked the marketplace. [00:29:54 - 00:29:56] It's older than Ur. [00:29:56 - 00:30:03] But this kind of mystery is absolutely authentic. [00:30:03 - 00:30:09] And having once found it, I stopped searching for other authentic mysteries. [00:30:09 - 00:30:16] So I don't know what lies behind the deeper levels of the Kalachakra Tantra. [00:30:16 - 00:30:21] I don't know what lies behind the inner secrets of the way of Kuhuna. [00:30:21 - 00:30:27] But I do know that this one thing fulfills the bill. [00:30:27 - 00:30:33] It's real. And you only need one doorway to enter into the palace of the kingdom. [00:30:33 - 00:30:42] So why assess about numbering doorways? That doesn't seem to be the way to go. [00:30:42 - 00:30:44] Yeah. [00:30:44 - 00:30:53] [inaudible] [00:30:53 - 00:30:56] I'm not sure I understand the question. [00:30:56 - 00:31:01] [inaudible] [00:31:01 - 00:31:03] Yeah. [00:31:03 - 00:31:07] [inaudible] [00:31:07 - 00:31:09] Right. [00:31:09 - 00:31:13] [inaudible] [00:31:13 - 00:31:17] I've actually never combined DMT and psilocybin. [00:31:17 - 00:31:23] I have smoked DMT at the top of an LSD trip. [00:31:23 - 00:31:29] That's a young man's game, believe me. [00:31:29 - 00:31:34] If you're interested in that, hurry up. It's like climbing the Matterhorn. [00:31:34 - 00:31:37] What happened to me -- well, I did it several times, [00:31:37 - 00:31:44] but I'll tell you a story just for your edification maybe, but amusement perhaps. [00:31:44 - 00:31:52] I once, and noticing please, was a landlord in Berkeley many years ago. [00:31:52 - 00:31:56] And -- okay, that's sufficient. [00:31:56 - 00:32:04] And everybody left one Easter vacation or Thanksgiving vacation, [00:32:04 - 00:32:12] and so I decided I would do this absent trip I'd been planning and smoke DMT at the top of the trip. [00:32:12 - 00:32:21] And so I did, and I did, and I had this very long involved DMT trip and the L's and all. [00:32:21 - 00:32:27] It was just totally out of control, and at the very height of this thing, [00:32:27 - 00:32:33] this woman who I rented to upstairs, who I thought had gone home to Minneapolis, [00:32:33 - 00:32:41] came back and arrived by cab and came pounding up the stairs with these two suitcases, [00:32:41 - 00:32:49] let herself into the house, and ran around to my bedroom door and beat on the door. [00:32:49 - 00:32:57] And you know, you don't know me that well, but 500 miles up a jungle river, smoking a joint, [00:32:57 - 00:33:03] and a stick cracked 50 feet away, the first thing I do is hide the joint. [00:33:03 - 00:33:07] I am a very paranoid person. [00:33:07 - 00:33:14] So being, you know, on 500 mikes of acid, smoking DMT, and suddenly having this woman -- [00:33:14 - 00:33:24] and I literally, I had like some kind of a coronary, and I leaped off my bed, and I landed on my feet. [00:33:24 - 00:33:28] And you know, if you want, you may try this. [00:33:28 - 00:33:35] Something about this enormous splash of adrenaline added into the DMT, [00:33:35 - 00:33:46] added in to this sudden, incredible physical exertion, it was as though I ripped the membrane. [00:33:46 - 00:33:56] I ripped the membrane, and I was now standing in my room, but I had dragged the trip through with me, [00:33:56 - 00:34:02] and the room was full of elves ricocheting on the floor and ceiling. [00:34:02 - 00:34:08] And I had them, they were hanging on me like weasels. [00:34:08 - 00:34:13] And they were sort of turning me around in the room. [00:34:13 - 00:34:23] And also, simultaneously, one of these machines had been dragged through into my bedroom. [00:34:23 - 00:34:27] At the same time, it was like about the size of, well, like this. [00:34:27 - 00:34:33] And it had all kinds of -- it was faceted and opalescent and glassy and strange. [00:34:33 - 00:34:44] But what was important about it was it had that kind of a faceted top on it that was clicking, going -- [00:34:44 - 00:34:56] and every time it would click, it would launch a small plastic chit across the room that had an alien letter written on it. [00:34:56 - 00:35:02] And these little plastic chits were ricocheting off the wall and piling up. [00:35:02 - 00:35:09] And I was standing appalled, looking at this situation. [00:35:09 - 00:35:13] And then Rosemary swam on the door again. [00:35:13 - 00:35:20] So I staggered over to the door, which was a sliding wooden door, and I just threw it open. [00:35:20 - 00:35:33] And I looked at her and said, "Giddy me, diddy me, diddy me, diddy me, you know, for having me." [00:35:33 - 00:35:38] "Oh, so you're doing that, all right." [00:35:38 - 00:35:43] And backed up, and then I just slammed the door again. [00:35:43 - 00:35:48] And I pushed my way across the room, and I crawled under the bed. [00:35:48 - 00:35:54] And I closed my eyes, and I just said, "I'm going to stay here until I'm dead or it's over." [00:35:54 - 00:35:57] And I did. [00:35:57 - 00:36:09] But it was -- I mean, what kind -- you know, you're supposed to learn something about psychology, an experience. [00:36:09 - 00:36:16] It's ridiculous. [00:36:16 - 00:36:18] Yes. [00:36:18 - 00:36:25] If you comment on the parallel cases that are received, special plans that you study that are of the origins of language, [00:36:25 - 00:36:30] the origins of psychology, the origins of religion. [00:36:30 - 00:36:39] Well, this thing, which I've done several times this afternoon in various states, this language thing, [00:36:39 - 00:36:45] that's glossolalia and called speaking in tongues. [00:36:45 - 00:36:53] The good news is the fundies don't have any kind of monopoly on this. [00:36:53 - 00:36:56] Speaking in tongues is as old as human beings. [00:36:56 - 00:37:01] It's shamanic, it's paleolithic, and it's done all over the world. [00:37:01 - 00:37:08] And I think that -- well, psilocybin will induce it spontaneously. [00:37:08 - 00:37:18] And I think to add to my little scenario yesterday about hunting, fucking, and tripping, we could also add in there, and talking. [00:37:18 - 00:37:28] Probably long before the invention of what we call meaning, people amused each other with funny noises. [00:37:28 - 00:37:34] People would say, "Mmm, yee, mmm, mmm, aah, talk that." [00:37:34 - 00:37:38] And they also would do it. [00:37:38 - 00:37:43] So being physiologically set up for the production of small mouth noises, [00:37:43 - 00:37:52] notice that language is a very primitive form of telepathy, because here's how it works. [00:37:52 - 00:37:55] I have an idea. [00:37:55 - 00:37:57] I look in my dictionary. [00:37:57 - 00:38:02] I translate the idea into what we call English. [00:38:02 - 00:38:08] I then move my lips and throat muscles and aspirate in a certain way, [00:38:08 - 00:38:18] and I send an acoustical pressure wave across space, which enters into the holes on the side of your head. [00:38:18 - 00:38:31] Your brain reconstructs this acoustical wave and tries to match the incoming pattern against an interior dictionary, which has been learned. [00:38:31 - 00:38:44] Now, if your dictionary and my dictionary are congruent, lo and behold, you can reconstruct my thought in your mind. [00:38:44 - 00:38:53] Now, if the thought is something fairly straightforward, like, "Please shut the door," ambiguity doesn't enter. [00:38:53 - 00:39:09] But notice that one of the most uncool things we can do with each other is to say to somebody, "Would you mind explaining to me what it was that you just said?" [00:39:09 - 00:39:16] Or, "Would you mind explaining to me what it was that I just said?" [00:39:16 - 00:39:20] And then people say, "Oh, shit, now the cover's blown. [00:39:20 - 00:39:24] I haven't the faintest idea. We've been winning." [00:39:24 - 00:39:33] So language, spoken language, small mouth noises, is a very imperfect way of communicating. [00:39:33 - 00:39:44] This is why I think that the visual initiation in the DMT is they taught us language. [00:39:44 - 00:39:49] This is not the first initiation from the Ls. [00:39:49 - 00:39:53] The first initiation occurred 100,000 years ago. [00:39:53 - 00:39:57] The second initiation is occurring now. [00:39:57 - 00:40:00] First, they gave us language. [00:40:00 - 00:40:05] Now they're going to show us how to make that language visible. [00:40:05 - 00:40:18] And you see, if you and I both read the same page of a book, we can then have an enormous argument about what's written there. [00:40:18 - 00:40:31] But if you and I both step into a place where a piece of sculpture is being exhibited, we may argue about what the piece of sculpture means, but we agree what it is. [00:40:31 - 00:40:34] We see it. We see it. [00:40:34 - 00:40:42] And when we communicate with each other and understand each other, we instinctively reach for visual metaphors. [00:40:42 - 00:40:44] I see what you mean. [00:40:44 - 00:40:46] Look here, fella. [00:40:46 - 00:40:49] She painted a picture. [00:40:49 - 00:40:52] His words were so beautiful. [00:40:52 - 00:40:58] It means that we really associate meaning with seeing something. [00:40:58 - 00:41:05] And I believe that we're on the brink of a transformation of how we communicate with each other. [00:41:05 - 00:41:12] And I don't know whether we're going to require a prosthesis that is electronic or something like that, [00:41:12 - 00:41:25] or whether we can invent drugs which will allow the cerebral cortex to switch its linguistic analysis from the audio channel to the visual channel. [00:41:25 - 00:41:32] It's very suggestive that these tryptamines are in the new parts of the brain. [00:41:32 - 00:41:38] And I think that we're on the brink of transforming our ability to communicate. [00:41:38 - 00:41:39] Yeah. [00:41:39 - 00:41:45] It seems to me, and I'm not really making it up, but I've been a lot of work on the DMT. [00:41:45 - 00:41:47] I made that with an LSD. [00:41:47 - 00:41:54] What I think I'm getting is DMT strength and strength. [00:41:54 - 00:42:00] I think it's tripping all kinds of other things. [00:42:00 - 00:42:15] So, yeah, I mean, what was said was that using LSD and having used DMT, one can begin to trip into DMT-like dimensions on LSD. [00:42:15 - 00:42:17] This certainly seems reasonable to me. [00:42:17 - 00:42:24] I haven't had that specific experience, but there is something you can do with psilocybin. [00:42:24 - 00:42:28] Here's another technique if you don't like what's happening on a mushroom trip. [00:42:28 - 00:42:34] Just say to it, "Be MDMA." [00:42:34 - 00:42:36] And it will. [00:42:36 - 00:42:38] No problem. [00:42:38 - 00:42:42] You can say to it, "Be LSD." [00:42:42 - 00:42:44] And it will. [00:42:44 - 00:42:46] It has no problem. [00:42:46 - 00:42:48] How about DMT? [00:42:48 - 00:42:52] I didn't try that. [00:42:52 - 00:42:56] You want to be sure before you summon the genie. [00:42:56 - 00:43:00] It isn't clear. [00:43:00 - 00:43:11] Let me say one more thing about this language thing, because I think nature is always our model. [00:43:11 - 00:43:19] No matter how deep into technology we go, nature will provide nontoxic models. [00:43:19 - 00:43:28] It just so happens that in this area of communication, nature has provided a wonderful nontoxic model, [00:43:28 - 00:43:34] and that is the way in which squids and octopi communicate. [00:43:34 - 00:43:41] Squids and octopi, as you know from watching far too much TV, can change color. [00:43:41 - 00:43:45] But you may think this is camouflage. [00:43:45 - 00:43:47] It's not camouflage. [00:43:47 - 00:43:51] Octopi change color in order to communicate. [00:43:51 - 00:43:55] Octopi don't generate language. [00:43:55 - 00:43:58] They are language. [00:43:58 - 00:44:00] Think of an octopus. [00:44:00 - 00:44:02] It's soft body. [00:44:02 - 00:44:11] It can fold and unfold itself like a dancer and expose various parts of its body very rapidly. [00:44:11 - 00:44:18] It also can make its body tissue smooth and rubbery or rugose and rough, [00:44:18 - 00:44:26] and it can undergo all these color changes, splotches, stripes, spreading, pastels, so forth and so on. [00:44:26 - 00:44:35] These behaviors of the octopus are under the genetic control of its linguistic intentionality. [00:44:35 - 00:44:38] It doesn't make words. [00:44:38 - 00:44:47] It becomes words, and when one octopus encounters another, by the mere act of beholding each other, [00:44:47 - 00:44:50] they say, "Aha, you haven't eaten recently. [00:44:50 - 00:44:53] You're having too much sex. [00:44:53 - 00:44:57] You've been traveling," and so forth and so on. [00:44:57 - 00:45:01] The octopus becomes its spot. [00:45:01 - 00:45:08] It wears language on its surface the way we wear our clothing, [00:45:08 - 00:45:16] and this system of communication is so important to the octopus that those species that have evolved [00:45:16 - 00:45:25] into the very deep parts of the ocean, the so-called abyssal octopi where no light ever reaches, [00:45:25 - 00:45:34] have evolved phosphorescent organs all over their bodies and eyelid-like membranes all over their bodies [00:45:34 - 00:45:43] so that in the absolute darkness of the abyssal ocean, they communicate by flashing grammar and syntax [00:45:43 - 00:45:46] to each other across the abyssal depths. [00:45:46 - 00:45:52] They are free in the imagination, and I think this is where we're headed. [00:45:52 - 00:45:56] We are going to make that model of communication our model. [00:45:56 - 00:46:05] Psychedelics, technology, and visionary magic will show how this can be done. [00:46:05 - 00:46:06] We do that now. [00:46:06 - 00:46:08] We flash and we blend. [00:46:08 - 00:46:10] The system will show us color. [00:46:10 - 00:46:11] No, you're right. [00:46:11 - 00:46:14] The human face is like this. [00:46:14 - 00:46:19] And we are given that we wear clothing not just because that seems the higher body, [00:46:19 - 00:46:22] but because it's signified. [00:46:22 - 00:46:24] Signify color, culture, intention. [00:46:24 - 00:46:25] We do that now. [00:46:25 - 00:46:26] We're working on it. [00:46:26 - 00:46:27] That's right. [00:46:27 - 00:46:30] You see, no other animal has a face. [00:46:30 - 00:46:40] A face is like a little piece of squid skin that we're wearing where we can transmit all of these. [00:46:40 - 00:46:44] Once I was in India, and I was cornered. [00:46:44 - 00:46:50] I was loaded actually on mescaline, and this guy swam aboard my houseboat. [00:46:50 - 00:46:56] And normally I just would run these guys off because they were thieves and beggars. [00:46:56 - 00:47:00] But I was so loaded that I couldn't do anything but sit there. [00:47:00 - 00:47:03] And this guy came up to me and sat down across from me.