WEBVTT 00:05.970 --> 00:13.970 Everyone's fond of saying that coastlines and forest distributions and all this stuff are fractal. 00:13.970 --> 00:17.970 Well, doesn't this imply that there is then a global fractal? 00:17.970 --> 00:25.970 There is a fractal dimension which, when you feed it into your computer and wrap the data around a sphere, 00:25.970 --> 00:30.970 the continents and oceans of Earth should appear. 00:30.970 --> 00:34.970 And in principle, again to the absurd level, 00:34.970 --> 00:41.970 you should be able to then telescope in on that portion of this data that is wrapped around the sphere 00:41.970 --> 00:44.970 that corresponds to Northern California. 00:44.970 --> 00:51.970 And on your computer screen should appear Esalen hung on the cliffs of Big Sur 00:51.970 --> 00:55.970 with us sitting in a room inside discussing the matter. 00:55.970 --> 00:59.970 Rupert, Terence, I'm Ralph. 00:59.970 --> 01:00.970 Creation. 01:00.970 --> 01:01.970 Imagination. 01:01.970 --> 01:04.970 My mask is chaos. 01:06.970 --> 02:09.350 My early LSD experiences, I seemed to see motifs and structures that gave me an interest in Tibetan Buddhism. 02:09.350 --> 02:15.350 And I went to India with the intent of studying the Tibetan language 02:15.350 --> 02:18.350 and quickly found that the whole thing was just overwhelming. 02:18.350 --> 02:24.350 And that I was just, you know, a human atom in the sea of India 02:24.350 --> 02:30.350 and that the notion of encompassing or understanding what this was 02:30.350 --> 02:35.350 was clearly the task of a lifetime. 02:35.350 --> 02:42.350 And several times in my life I have acted out this sort of ricocheting relationship 02:42.350 --> 02:46.350 between the humanities and the sciences. 02:46.350 --> 02:48.350 At times, 02:48.350 --> 02:56.350 you know, losing myself in the study of certain schools of poetry or literature or painting. 02:56.350 --> 03:01.350 And then at other times spending years reading the philosophy of science 03:01.350 --> 03:06.350 and epistemic basis of physics and this sort of thing. 03:06.350 --> 03:15.350 Always trying to get a resolution on the content of my experience, 03:15.350 --> 03:17.350 my lived experience. 03:17.350 --> 03:22.350 Which included the psychedelic experience. 03:22.350 --> 03:25.350 Which for me, from very early on, 03:25.350 --> 03:31.350 was this kind of tremendous mystery or conundrum 03:31.350 --> 03:34.350 which was set down in the middle of my being. 03:34.350 --> 03:37.350 And it still continues like that. 03:37.350 --> 03:39.350 I keep returning to that. 03:39.350 --> 03:46.350 Testing all the ideas against the fullness of experience. 03:46.350 --> 03:58.540 The main difference between our world 03:58.540 --> 04:02.540 and the world that science tells us we're living in 04:02.540 --> 04:09.540 is that science denies the quirky, freaky, cosmic giggle, 04:09.540 --> 04:16.540 high plottedness, completely improbable, totally quirky humor 04:16.540 --> 04:19.540 that binds everything together 04:19.540 --> 04:21.540 and that makes it something other than an engine 04:21.540 --> 04:23.540 in which atoms blindly run. 04:24.540 --> 04:26.540 In Whitehead's phrase. 04:26.540 --> 04:31.540 Schrodinger brilliantly anticipated the discovery of DNA 04:31.540 --> 04:34.540 and then Joseph Needham and L.L. White 04:34.540 --> 04:39.540 and, well, Eric Jansch should be mentioned actually 04:39.540 --> 04:43.540 as a precursor of us all, I think. 04:43.540 --> 04:47.540 I mean, Eric Jansch was a great pioneer, a great soul 04:47.540 --> 04:51.540 and he saw very deeply into whole systems 04:51.540 --> 04:53.540 as did Ilya Prigozhin, 04:53.540 --> 04:55.540 the Belgian thermodynamicist. 04:55.540 --> 04:59.540 And I think a lot of all of what we're doing 04:59.540 --> 05:00.540 comes out of that. 05:00.540 --> 05:04.540 What Prigozhin showed that just brought down the house 05:04.540 --> 05:11.540 was that there could be perturbations of physical systems 05:11.540 --> 05:13.540 that were unpredictable 05:13.540 --> 05:16.540 and that would cause the whole system 05:16.540 --> 05:20.540 to actually move to a more ordered state 05:20.540 --> 05:22.540 than the initial state. 05:22.540 --> 05:26.540 And this perturbation to higher states of order 05:26.540 --> 05:29.540 looks suspiciously like a violation 05:29.540 --> 05:34.540 of the supposedly inviolate second law of thermodynamics. 05:34.540 --> 05:37.540 So that looks, you know, like a doorway 05:37.540 --> 05:41.540 into an energetic hyperspace. 05:41.540 --> 05:53.650 Well, when A New Science of Life came out in 1982 in America, 05:53.650 --> 05:56.650 it came out a year earlier in England, 05:56.650 --> 05:58.650 I came to California because it was published 05:58.650 --> 06:00.650 in Los Angeles. 06:00.650 --> 06:02.650 I found myself here at Esalen. 06:02.650 --> 06:05.650 I found an extraordinary new range of things going on 06:05.650 --> 06:07.650 I hadn't known about. 06:07.650 --> 06:09.650 And when I was in San Francisco, 06:09.650 --> 06:13.650 a friend who I knew from Europe said to me, 06:13.650 --> 06:15.650 just the day before I left, 06:15.650 --> 06:17.650 there's somebody you must meet. 06:17.650 --> 06:20.650 He's called Terence McKenna. 06:20.650 --> 06:22.650 I didn't know much about Terence, 06:22.650 --> 06:24.650 so I went up there. 06:24.650 --> 06:28.650 And in this large 1956 Buick, 06:28.650 --> 06:32.650 we headed off into the woods in Sonoma County, 06:32.650 --> 06:34.650 where Terence lives. 06:34.650 --> 06:36.650 And there I met both Terence and Ralph, 06:36.650 --> 06:38.650 who was there for the day. 06:38.650 --> 06:41.650 I found that part of my interest 06:41.650 --> 06:43.650 in these other realms of reality, of course, 06:43.650 --> 06:45.650 like many people in this room, 06:45.650 --> 06:48.650 was stimulated by experience with psychedelic substances. 06:48.650 --> 06:50.650 This was before I went to India. 06:50.650 --> 06:52.650 When I arrived in India, 06:52.650 --> 06:55.650 I found that India is a kind of psychedelic realm anyway. 06:55.650 --> 06:57.650 It's just an amazing place. 06:58.650 --> 07:04.110 So in Terence I found somebody 07:04.110 --> 07:06.110 who knew about that whole realm, 07:06.110 --> 07:08.110 who shared with me an interest in India, 07:08.110 --> 07:11.110 since it played an important part in his development, 07:11.110 --> 07:14.110 and who had views about the nature of reality 07:14.110 --> 07:17.110 which complemented my own in an extraordinary way. 07:17.110 --> 07:21.110 My own theory is about memory and habit in nature. 07:21.110 --> 07:23.110 Terence, I found, had developed a theory 07:23.110 --> 07:26.110 about novelty and creativity in nature, 07:26.110 --> 07:28.110 a theory about the quality of time 07:28.110 --> 07:30.110 and the creative process 07:30.110 --> 07:34.110 as it is related to the ongoing flux of events. 07:36.110 --> 07:40.110 And Ralph had a kind of mathematical theory 07:40.110 --> 07:42.110 which was just the kind of thing 07:42.110 --> 07:46.110 that the view of nature I was trying to develop needed, 07:46.110 --> 07:50.110 the idea of nature being drawn by goals or attractors. 07:50.110 --> 07:52.110 In the mathematical science of dynamics 07:52.110 --> 07:56.110 there's this model of reality being pulled from ahead 07:56.110 --> 07:58.110 by things called attractors. 07:58.110 --> 08:00.110 It's a teleological, 08:00.110 --> 08:02.110 a thermo-mystic view of nature, 08:02.110 --> 08:06.110 which dressed up in the guise of mathematical models, 08:06.110 --> 08:09.110 which I found most fascinating. 08:09.110 --> 08:11.110 And so for me, 08:11.110 --> 08:13.110 the meeting with Ralph and Terence 08:13.110 --> 08:15.110 was a step further towards seeing 08:15.110 --> 08:17.110 how one could begin to dream of a world 08:17.110 --> 08:19.110 in which nature was seen as alive, 08:19.110 --> 08:23.110 in which the imagination permeated all reality, 08:23.110 --> 08:25.110 in which animals and plants 08:25.110 --> 08:28.110 are seen as part of the living texture, 08:28.110 --> 08:30.110 of the world, 08:30.110 --> 08:32.110 the living components, 08:32.110 --> 08:34.110 the cells in the life of Gaia 08:34.110 --> 08:37.110 and Gaia in the life of the cosmos as a whole. 08:37.110 --> 08:41.110 In fact, a view of the world as alive 08:41.110 --> 08:43.110 which recalls in some respects 08:43.110 --> 08:45.110 the old cosmologies of the ancient world 08:45.110 --> 08:48.110 where the cosmos was seen as a living organism, 08:48.110 --> 08:51.110 where they thought of the whole cosmos as having a soul, 08:51.110 --> 08:53.110 the soul of the world, 08:53.110 --> 08:57.380 the anima mundi. 08:57.380 --> 09:00.380 So I was brought up in a field of music, 09:00.380 --> 09:04.380 but I was attracted to mathematics early. 09:04.380 --> 09:07.380 And when I was 14, 09:07.380 --> 09:09.380 I played in the State Symphony. 09:09.380 --> 09:12.380 After that I started in mathematics 09:12.380 --> 09:15.380 and I became a professor at Berkeley when I was 23. 09:15.380 --> 09:18.380 I had an easy way in mathematics 09:18.380 --> 09:22.380 and the way the system works, 09:22.380 --> 09:25.380 the carpet is unrolled in front of you. 09:25.380 --> 09:27.380 You have a few choices, 09:27.380 --> 09:29.380 but basically before you even know what's happening, 09:29.380 --> 09:31.380 the carpet is unrolled 09:31.380 --> 09:33.380 and you're down the runnel 09:33.380 --> 09:35.380 into whatever you can do 09:35.380 --> 09:38.380 that's useful to the system. 09:38.380 --> 09:40.380 In this process, 09:40.380 --> 09:44.380 I lost nature. 09:44.380 --> 09:46.380 But there was a great gain 09:46.380 --> 09:48.380 because I love it out there. 09:48.380 --> 09:50.380 I love to be off the planet. 09:50.380 --> 09:52.380 I always did. 09:52.380 --> 09:54.380 And to this day, 09:54.380 --> 09:57.380 I spend very little time on planet Earth. 09:57.380 --> 09:59.380 So it was, 09:59.380 --> 10:01.380 it went on in this way. 10:01.380 --> 10:02.380 And by 1967, 10:02.380 --> 10:04.380 I was a professor at Princeton. 10:04.380 --> 10:07.380 I had written three books on mathematics 10:07.380 --> 10:10.380 that you need a microscope to read. 10:10.380 --> 10:14.380 And I had been studying for a long while chaos, 10:14.380 --> 10:16.380 but we didn't call it chaos then 10:16.380 --> 10:18.380 and we didn't see in it 10:18.380 --> 10:20.380 any role in the natural world 10:20.380 --> 10:22.380 or in social transformation 10:22.380 --> 10:24.380 or in the evolution of consciousness 10:24.380 --> 10:27.380 because we didn't think about anything out there. 10:27.380 --> 10:29.380 So one day after my third book was done 10:29.380 --> 10:30.380 and I was exhausted 10:30.380 --> 10:31.380 and I looked up 10:31.380 --> 10:33.380 and all the students were out in the courtyard 10:33.380 --> 10:35.380 demonstrating about the Vietnam War 10:35.380 --> 10:38.380 and to open the university to women students 10:38.380 --> 10:39.380 and so on. 10:39.380 --> 10:40.380 I said, 10:40.380 --> 10:41.380 what exactly is going on? 10:41.380 --> 10:42.380 Here, they said, 10:42.380 --> 10:43.380 take this. 10:47.380 --> 10:48.380 And so, 10:48.380 --> 10:50.380 like many people in that year 10:50.380 --> 10:52.380 or around that time in 1967, 10:52.380 --> 10:55.380 my career had a bifurcation. 10:55.380 --> 10:57.380 So I went off the track 10:57.380 --> 10:59.380 with psychedelics 10:59.380 --> 11:00.380 with meditation, 11:00.380 --> 11:01.380 but especially with searching, 11:01.380 --> 11:02.380 with trying everything. 11:02.380 --> 11:03.380 And eventually, 11:03.380 --> 11:05.380 I was living in a cave in the Himalayas. 11:05.380 --> 11:08.380 And when I returned to California, 11:08.380 --> 11:10.380 I was standing on a street corner 11:10.380 --> 11:11.380 in Santa Cruz 11:11.380 --> 11:13.380 in white pajamas. 11:13.380 --> 11:14.380 And a car stopped. 11:14.380 --> 11:17.380 An old friend from a previous lifetime said, 11:17.380 --> 11:19.380 there's somebody you have to meet. 11:19.380 --> 11:20.380 Get in the car. 11:20.380 --> 11:22.380 I had nothing to do. 11:22.380 --> 11:23.380 It sounded okay. 11:23.380 --> 11:24.380 And in that time, 11:24.380 --> 11:27.380 I believed that everything goes perfectly. 11:27.380 --> 11:28.380 You just go along. 11:28.380 --> 11:30.380 You just go along with the flow, 11:30.380 --> 11:31.380 as they said. 11:31.380 --> 11:33.380 I didn't know it would be a two-hour drive. 11:33.380 --> 11:34.380 So I got in the car. 11:34.380 --> 11:36.380 There was the two-hour drive to Berkeley. 11:36.380 --> 11:38.380 And I was literally dumped out of the car 11:38.380 --> 11:40.380 on Terrence's front step. 11:40.380 --> 11:42.380 I never heard of Terrence at that time. 11:42.380 --> 11:44.380 1972. 11:44.380 --> 11:45.380 And I went in. 11:45.380 --> 11:47.380 And what happened then, 11:47.380 --> 11:48.380 I would still say, 11:48.380 --> 11:51.380 although we've had many wonderful talks 11:51.380 --> 11:52.380 and exciting, 11:52.380 --> 11:53.380 thrilling, 11:53.380 --> 11:55.380 and nutritious times in the meanwhile, 11:55.380 --> 11:57.380 that that was quite a miraculous chat. 11:57.380 --> 11:59.380 Many subjects came up. 11:59.380 --> 12:01.380 How to grow mushrooms, 12:01.380 --> 12:02.380 outer space, 12:02.380 --> 12:03.380 I don't know, 12:03.380 --> 12:04.380 anything you could think of, 12:04.380 --> 12:06.380 all passed by in the course of an hour or two. 12:06.380 --> 12:07.380 In this way, 12:07.380 --> 12:09.380 we became friends. 12:09.380 --> 12:11.380 And this habit we had, 12:11.380 --> 12:13.380 this activity that we do, 12:13.380 --> 12:14.380 I mean, 12:14.380 --> 12:16.380 we never go for a hike or something like that. 12:16.380 --> 12:19.380 We sit in the evening and talk. 12:19.380 --> 12:21.380 And what happens is 12:21.380 --> 12:23.380 synergistic, 12:23.380 --> 12:25.380 miraculous growth, 12:25.380 --> 12:26.380 evolutionary. 12:26.380 --> 12:31.380 And in this revitalization of my work 12:31.380 --> 12:34.380 and eventually the whole field of mathematics, 12:34.380 --> 12:36.380 my conversations with Terrence, 12:36.380 --> 12:39.380 whereas I think we thought of them as just good fun, 12:39.380 --> 12:44.380 that they did have a really fundamental influence 12:44.380 --> 12:46.380 on everything I've done since. 12:46.380 --> 12:47.380 So fun, 12:47.380 --> 12:49.380 or I would say fun is insulting. 12:49.380 --> 12:50.380 I mean, 12:50.380 --> 12:52.380 thrilling because of going to the edge, 12:52.380 --> 12:53.380 going beyond the edge, 12:53.380 --> 12:55.380 having company there, 12:55.380 --> 12:58.380 finding things which you can bring back and they work, 12:58.380 --> 13:01.380 and become part of everything you're doing. 13:01.380 --> 13:03.380 So it's opened up. 13:03.380 --> 13:06.380 These complex phenomenon 13:06.380 --> 13:08.380 characterized by chaotic irregular, 13:08.380 --> 13:09.380 that is to say, 13:09.380 --> 13:13.380 not well ordered in the previous paradigm 13:13.380 --> 13:15.380 of space-time structure. 13:15.380 --> 13:17.380 For example, 13:17.380 --> 13:19.380 relationships among people, 13:19.380 --> 13:23.380 the states and change of states of society, 13:23.380 --> 13:24.380 the whole process. 13:24.380 --> 13:28.380 The intimations of mysticism, 13:28.380 --> 13:32.380 the intimation of a possibility of transcendence 13:32.380 --> 13:35.380 is all firmly grounded. 13:35.380 --> 13:37.380 We just have to now, 13:37.380 --> 13:39.380 it's almost as though mathematics 13:39.380 --> 13:42.380 is the extreme cutting edge of human understanding. 13:42.380 --> 13:45.380 How can we quickly export 13:45.380 --> 13:47.380 these new understandings 13:47.380 --> 13:51.380 that release us from a need for closure, 13:51.380 --> 13:54.380 that free us from an either or unity 13:54.380 --> 13:55.380 in the universe? 13:55.380 --> 13:57.380 How can we quickly export these models 13:57.380 --> 14:00.380 from the realm of research mathematics 14:00.380 --> 14:04.380 into the realm of daily life? 14:04.380 --> 14:12.760 I really see it as politics 14:12.760 --> 14:14.760 almost at the viral level 14:14.760 --> 14:17.760 that we are trying to create 14:17.760 --> 14:20.760 new languages and new concepts 14:20.760 --> 14:22.760 and not only create them 14:22.760 --> 14:24.760 but teach them to you 14:24.760 --> 14:26.760 and we ourselves repeat them 14:26.760 --> 14:28.760 over and over again 14:28.760 --> 14:30.760 and you feed back into this 14:30.760 --> 14:32.760 and then we refine the meme 14:32.760 --> 14:35.760 and then a meme is like a gene. 14:35.760 --> 14:38.760 It can be replicated 14:38.760 --> 14:41.760 and we have not seen language 14:41.760 --> 14:43.760 as the playing field 14:43.760 --> 14:47.760 of the creation of the new paradigm 14:47.760 --> 14:49.760 but that's really where it is. 14:49.760 --> 14:51.760 We can transform ourselves 14:51.760 --> 14:53.760 no more quickly 14:53.760 --> 14:56.760 than we transform our language 14:56.760 --> 14:58.760 and the way we transform 14:58.760 --> 15:01.760 our language is by really pushing 15:01.760 --> 15:03.760 on the envelope of the act 15:03.760 --> 15:05.760 of communication. 15:05.760 --> 15:07.760 You know the caterpillar 15:07.760 --> 15:10.760 in Alice in Wonderland says 15:10.760 --> 15:11.760 say what you mean 15:11.760 --> 15:13.760 and mean what you say. 15:13.760 --> 15:14.760 I do. 15:14.760 --> 15:22.950 I'm a biologist by background. 15:22.950 --> 15:24.950 I studied biology because 15:24.950 --> 15:27.950 I was interested in animals and plants 15:27.950 --> 15:30.950 and when I was studying it 15:30.950 --> 15:32.950 at Cambridge 15:32.950 --> 15:34.950 I began to have terrible doubts 15:34.950 --> 15:36.950 about what I was doing 15:36.950 --> 15:38.950 because everything that really interested me 15:38.950 --> 15:40.950 about animals and plants 15:40.950 --> 15:42.950 somehow vanished 15:42.950 --> 15:44.950 when I got into the biochemistry laboratories. 15:44.950 --> 15:46.950 I was majoring in biochemistry 15:46.950 --> 15:49.950 and I did a PhD in biochemistry there. 15:49.950 --> 15:51.950 But there's a curious thing about biochemistry 15:51.950 --> 15:53.950 you're doing biochemistry to study 15:53.950 --> 15:55.950 the molecular basis of life 15:55.950 --> 15:57.950 yet the very first thing you do in the laboratory 15:57.950 --> 15:59.950 is kill whatever you're studying 15:59.950 --> 16:00.950 grind it up 16:00.950 --> 16:02.950 extract the enzymes 16:02.950 --> 16:04.950 and then in a test tube 16:04.950 --> 16:06.950 study the properties of some of these molecules 16:06.950 --> 16:08.950 extracted from this killed organism. 16:08.950 --> 16:11.950 And it began to occur to me 16:11.950 --> 16:13.950 that perhaps this wasn't the best way 16:13.950 --> 16:15.950 to understand life. 16:15.950 --> 16:18.950 But I didn't quite know what to do about it 16:18.950 --> 16:20.950 because everybody else thought it was 16:20.950 --> 16:23.950 definitely was the best way to study life 16:23.950 --> 16:26.950 and in fact there was no other valid way. 16:26.950 --> 16:30.950 So this set me thinking 16:30.950 --> 16:32.950 and I began to see that 16:32.950 --> 16:35.950 the science of biology could be reformed 16:35.950 --> 16:38.950 that this idea that living organisms are truly alive 16:38.950 --> 16:40.950 rather than being just machines 16:40.950 --> 16:41.950 whereas the official doctrine 16:41.950 --> 16:43.950 the mechanistic theory 16:43.950 --> 16:47.950 says living organisms are just complicated machines 16:47.950 --> 16:48.950 believe it or not 16:48.950 --> 16:50.950 still the official doctrine of 16:50.950 --> 16:54.950 academic biology and academic medicine. 16:54.950 --> 16:58.950 These ideas went on developing. 16:58.950 --> 17:00.950 I then saw how I could bring them all together 17:00.950 --> 17:02.950 in a synthesis 17:02.950 --> 17:04.950 into a new way of seeing 17:04.950 --> 17:06.950 how biology could be done. 17:06.950 --> 17:08.950 And I wrote a book while still in India 17:08.950 --> 17:10.950 called A New Science of Life. 17:10.950 --> 17:12.950 In it the basic idea I'm suggesting 17:12.950 --> 17:14.950 is that there's a kind of inherent memory 17:14.950 --> 17:17.950 in all kinds of animals and plants. 17:17.950 --> 17:20.950 Each species has its own collective memory. 17:20.950 --> 17:23.950 So each member of the species draws on this collective memory 17:23.950 --> 17:25.950 and in turn contributes to it. 17:25.950 --> 17:27.950 The instincts of animals for example 17:27.950 --> 17:29.950 the behaviour of cuckoos 17:29.950 --> 17:31.950 the spinning of webs by spiders 17:31.950 --> 17:34.950 are like a memory, a habit of the species. 17:34.950 --> 17:36.950 This inheritance takes place 17:36.950 --> 17:38.950 by the process I call morphic resonance 17:38.950 --> 17:41.950 by a kind of invisible, intangible memory. 17:41.950 --> 17:43.950 A kind of resonance between 17:43.950 --> 17:46.950 present and past organisms of the same kind. 17:46.950 --> 17:48.950 The same theory helps explain 17:48.950 --> 17:49.950 how our own memory works 17:49.950 --> 17:51.950 by a resonance between our own past 17:51.950 --> 17:52.950 and our present states. 17:52.950 --> 17:54.950 It leads to the idea that 17:54.950 --> 17:56.950 our memories aren't stored in our brains 17:56.950 --> 17:58.950 but that we're tuning into them 17:58.950 --> 18:00.950 by this process of morphic resonance. 18:00.950 --> 18:04.950 Rupert's notions revision causality 18:04.950 --> 18:09.950 that means induct you into an entirely new way 18:09.950 --> 18:11.950 in which things happen. 18:11.950 --> 18:13.950 And this is after all 18:13.950 --> 18:16.950 where we're all spending a lot of our time. 18:16.950 --> 18:20.950 The models that Ralph is working with 18:20.950 --> 18:24.950 show that the world is not an engine 18:24.950 --> 18:26.950 running down toward a heat death 18:26.950 --> 18:29.950 but a tremendous kaleidoscope 18:29.950 --> 18:35.950 of unpredictable, creative, open-ended activity 18:35.950 --> 18:36.950 on every level. 18:36.950 --> 18:40.950 I mean it's really a dazzlingly kaleidoscopic vision. 18:40.950 --> 18:46.950 It's like a Sufi hierophany or something. 18:46.950 --> 18:49.950 But we're seeing it on the screens 18:49.950 --> 18:52.950 of computer simulations 18:52.950 --> 18:54.950 of this mathematical domain 18:54.950 --> 18:56.950 that is also the neural domain 18:56.950 --> 18:58.950 that is also the social domain. 18:59.950 --> 19:03.950 That is also the eco-planetary domain. 19:03.950 --> 19:05.950 This is not air. 19:05.950 --> 19:07.950 This is not mysticism. 19:07.950 --> 19:10.950 This is the real facts of how it is. 19:10.950 --> 19:13.950 How the world fits together. 19:13.950 --> 19:15.950 It fits together through the infusion 19:15.950 --> 19:23.850 of its invisible soul. 19:23.850 --> 19:25.850 If nature is evolutionary 19:25.850 --> 19:27.850 if all of nature is evolving 19:27.850 --> 19:29.850 what about the eternal laws of nature 19:29.850 --> 19:31.850 which scientists have taken for granted 19:31.850 --> 19:33.850 for so many centuries? 19:33.850 --> 19:35.850 It's going right back to Pythagoras 19:35.850 --> 19:37.850 and the ancient Greeks. 19:37.850 --> 19:39.850 Were all the laws of nature there 19:39.850 --> 19:42.850 before the Big Bang? 19:42.850 --> 19:45.850 Well, if they were there before the Big Bang 19:45.850 --> 19:47.850 where could they possibly be? 19:47.850 --> 19:48.850 There was nowhere to be. 19:48.850 --> 19:50.850 There was no universe. 19:50.850 --> 19:52.850 So if the laws of nature were all there 19:52.850 --> 19:53.850 before the Big Bang 19:53.850 --> 19:55.850 then they must be 19:55.850 --> 19:59.850 non-physical, idea-like entities 19:59.850 --> 20:01.850 dwelling in some kind of permanent 20:01.850 --> 20:03.850 mathematical mind. 20:03.850 --> 20:06.850 Be that thought of as the mind of God 20:06.850 --> 20:08.850 or just the mind of a kind of 20:08.850 --> 20:11.850 disembodied mathematician. 20:11.850 --> 20:13.850 They were thought to be permanent 20:13.850 --> 20:15.850 and all there before the universe. 20:15.850 --> 20:17.850 This assumption is still held 20:17.850 --> 20:19.850 by most of our modern cosmologists. 20:19.850 --> 20:21.850 It's something that physicists have not yet 20:21.850 --> 20:23.850 begun to question seriously. 20:23.850 --> 20:25.850 But as you can see 20:25.850 --> 20:27.850 it's like an idea that's had the carpet 20:27.850 --> 20:29.850 taken from under it. 20:29.850 --> 20:31.850 It's sort of hanging over an abyss. 20:31.850 --> 20:33.850 Because there's no 20:33.850 --> 20:35.850 real reason why we should assume 20:35.850 --> 20:37.850 the laws of nature are permanent 20:37.850 --> 20:39.850 in an evolving universe. 20:39.850 --> 20:41.850 If the universe is evolving 20:41.850 --> 20:43.850 then the laws of nature could be evolving as well. 20:43.850 --> 20:45.850 And in fact the very idea 20:45.850 --> 20:47.850 of the laws of nature may not be appropriate. 20:47.850 --> 20:49.850 It may be better to think of the 20:49.850 --> 20:51.850 habits of nature evolving. 20:51.850 --> 20:53.850 The Big Bang is like the cracking 20:53.850 --> 20:55.850 of the cosmic egg. 20:55.850 --> 20:57.850 That's its mythological correlate. 20:57.850 --> 20:59.850 The notion of the ancient mythological 20:59.850 --> 21:01.850 idea of the cosmos beginning 21:01.850 --> 21:03.850 through the hatching or the cracking 21:03.850 --> 21:05.850 of the cosmic egg. 21:05.850 --> 21:07.850 Followed by the growth of the organism 21:07.850 --> 21:09.850 that comes out. 21:09.850 --> 21:11.850 It's an embryological metaphor. 21:11.850 --> 21:13.850 And we now have a kind of developmental 21:13.850 --> 21:15.850 model of the whole universe. 21:15.850 --> 21:17.850 It's like a developing organism. 21:17.850 --> 21:19.850 It's not like a machine at all anymore. 21:19.850 --> 21:21.850 The universe is a growing, developing organism 21:21.850 --> 21:23.850 which is differentiating within itself 21:23.850 --> 21:25.850 forming new forms and patterns. 21:25.850 --> 21:27.850 An evolutionary process that on earth 21:27.850 --> 21:29.850 has given rise to all the forms 21:29.850 --> 21:31.850 of animal and plant life. 21:31.850 --> 21:33.850 All the different kinds of microbes 21:33.850 --> 21:35.850 in varied forms of human culture. 21:35.850 --> 21:37.850 A theory of evolutionary habits 21:37.850 --> 21:39.850 demands a theory of 21:39.850 --> 21:43.190 evolutionary creativity. 21:43.190 --> 21:45.190 How can we understand the creativity 21:45.190 --> 21:47.190 that's given rise to new ideas, 21:47.190 --> 21:49.190 to Beethoven's symphonies, 21:49.190 --> 21:51.190 to theories in science, 21:51.190 --> 21:53.190 to new works of art, 21:53.190 --> 21:55.190 to new forms of culture, 21:55.190 --> 21:57.190 to instincts in birds and animals, 21:57.190 --> 21:59.190 to the forms of flowers and plants 21:59.190 --> 22:01.190 and leaves, to the many kinds of 22:01.190 --> 22:03.190 rocks and crystals, 22:03.190 --> 22:05.190 and to all the forms of galactic and stellar 22:05.190 --> 22:07.190 life. 22:07.190 --> 22:09.190 What kind of creativity could underlie 22:09.190 --> 22:11.190 all those processes? 22:11.190 --> 22:13.190 One is the materialist view that says 22:13.190 --> 22:15.190 the whole thing is entirely due to blind chance. 22:15.190 --> 22:17.190 That there's nothing but a kind of 22:17.190 --> 22:19.190 darkness of blind 22:19.190 --> 22:21.190 material processes going on 22:21.190 --> 22:23.190 and then by blind chance 22:23.190 --> 22:25.190 new things happen. 22:25.190 --> 22:27.190 The other model for understanding creativity 22:27.190 --> 22:29.190 I think is provided by our own imaginations. 22:29.190 --> 22:31.190 Our imaginations 22:31.190 --> 22:33.190 are not full of 22:33.190 --> 22:35.190 fixed platonic ideas 22:35.190 --> 22:37.190 which are always the same, 22:37.190 --> 22:39.190 like platonic minds. 22:39.190 --> 22:41.190 They're ongoing, changing, 22:41.190 --> 22:43.190 dynamical processes 22:43.190 --> 22:45.190 with a kind of creative 22:45.190 --> 22:47.190 richness that always surprises us. 22:49.190 --> 22:51.190 So the question is 22:51.190 --> 22:53.190 if nature is alive rather than 22:53.190 --> 22:55.190 dead, if the 22:55.190 --> 22:57.190 universe, if the earth 22:57.190 --> 22:59.190 have a kind of mind or soul of their 22:59.190 --> 23:01.190 own, if living organisms are 23:01.190 --> 23:03.190 in some sense mind-like 23:03.190 --> 23:05.190 or if there's a mind-like process 23:05.190 --> 23:07.190 that work in nature, 23:07.190 --> 23:09.190 then how does this express its creativity? 23:09.190 --> 23:11.190 And so then the question is 23:11.190 --> 23:13.190 could this creativity in nature 23:13.190 --> 23:15.190 be a product of the imagination 23:15.190 --> 23:17.190 of Gaia, of the Gaian mind? 23:17.190 --> 23:19.190 Could it be a product 23:19.190 --> 23:21.190 of the cosmic imagination? 23:21.190 --> 23:23.190 Could there be a kind of imagination 23:23.190 --> 23:25.190 working in nature 23:25.190 --> 23:27.190 which is similar to our own 23:27.190 --> 23:29.190 imaginations? 23:29.190 --> 23:31.190 Could our own imaginations be just one 23:31.190 --> 23:33.190 conscious aspect 23:33.190 --> 23:35.190 of an imagination working through the whole 23:35.190 --> 23:37.190 natural world, perhaps unconsciously 23:37.190 --> 23:39.190 as it works underneath 23:39.190 --> 23:41.190 the surface of our dreams, 23:41.190 --> 23:43.190 perhaps sometimes consciously? 23:43.190 --> 23:45.190 And could this ongoing imagination 23:45.190 --> 23:47.190 be the basis of evolutionary 23:47.190 --> 23:49.190 creativity in nature 23:49.190 --> 23:51.190 just as it is in the human realm? 23:51.190 --> 24:04.140 How would it be 24:04.140 --> 24:06.140 or is it credible 24:06.140 --> 24:08.140 that perhaps what the universe 24:08.140 --> 24:10.140 is, is a kind of 24:10.140 --> 24:12.140 system in which 24:12.140 --> 24:14.140 more advanced forms 24:14.140 --> 24:16.140 of order 24:16.140 --> 24:18.140 actually influence 24:18.140 --> 24:20.140 previous states 24:20.140 --> 24:22.140 of organization? 24:22.140 --> 24:24.140 This is what is emerging 24:24.140 --> 24:26.140 in Ralph Abraham's work 24:26.140 --> 24:28.140 with the chaotic 24:28.140 --> 24:30.140 attractors. They are 24:30.140 --> 24:32.140 attractors. That means 24:32.140 --> 24:34.140 that they exert influence 24:34.140 --> 24:36.140 on less organized 24:36.140 --> 24:38.140 states and pull 24:38.140 --> 24:40.140 them toward some 24:40.140 --> 24:42.140 kind of end state. 24:42.140 --> 24:44.140 And for me 24:44.140 --> 24:46.140 the key to unlocking 24:46.140 --> 24:48.140 what is going on 24:48.140 --> 24:50.140 with history, 24:50.140 --> 24:52.140 creativity, progressive 24:52.140 --> 24:54.140 process 24:54.140 --> 24:56.140 of all sorts 24:56.140 --> 24:58.140 is to place 24:58.140 --> 25:00.140 the state of completion 25:00.140 --> 25:02.140 at the end, but to 25:02.140 --> 25:04.140 see it as a kind of 25:04.140 --> 25:06.140 higher dimensional object 25:06.140 --> 25:08.140 which casts an enormous 25:08.140 --> 25:10.140 and flickering shadow 25:10.140 --> 25:12.140 over 25:12.140 --> 25:14.140 the lower dimensions 25:14.140 --> 25:16.140 of organization, of which 25:16.140 --> 25:18.140 this universe is one. 25:18.140 --> 25:20.140 So that for instance 25:20.140 --> 25:22.140 in the human domain 25:22.140 --> 25:24.140 when we look at history 25:24.140 --> 25:26.140 what we see is 25:26.140 --> 25:28.140 an endless series of anticipations. 25:28.140 --> 25:30.140 The golden age 25:30.140 --> 25:32.140 is coming. The messiah 25:32.140 --> 25:34.140 is immediately around the corner. 25:34.140 --> 25:36.140 Great change 25:36.140 --> 25:38.140 is soon to be upon us. 25:38.140 --> 25:40.140 These are intimations 25:40.140 --> 25:42.140 of change. It's almost as 25:42.140 --> 25:44.140 though the transcendental object 25:44.140 --> 25:46.140 that is the great 25:46.140 --> 25:48.140 attractor in many 25:48.140 --> 25:50.140 many dimensions 25:50.140 --> 25:52.140 throws out images 25:52.140 --> 25:54.140 of itself 25:54.140 --> 25:56.140 which filter down through 25:56.140 --> 25:58.140 these lower dimensional matrices 25:58.140 --> 26:00.140 and actually are the basis 26:00.140 --> 26:02.140 of the 26:02.140 --> 26:04.140 appetition of nature 26:04.140 --> 26:06.140 for greater expression 26:06.140 --> 26:08.140 of form, the appetition 26:08.140 --> 26:10.140 of the human soul 26:10.140 --> 26:12.140 for greater immersion in beauty, 26:12.140 --> 26:14.140 the appetition 26:14.140 --> 26:16.140 of human history for 26:16.140 --> 26:18.140 greater expression 26:18.140 --> 26:20.140 of complexity. 26:20.140 --> 26:22.140 So when I think 26:22.140 --> 26:24.140 about these terms 26:24.140 --> 26:26.140 chaos, creativity, 26:26.140 --> 26:28.140 imagination 26:28.140 --> 26:30.140 I see them, it's like a 26:30.140 --> 26:32.140 three-stroke engine 26:32.140 --> 26:34.140 of some sort. 26:34.140 --> 26:36.140 Each impels and runs 26:36.140 --> 26:38.140 the other and sets up 26:38.140 --> 26:40.140 a reinforcing 26:40.140 --> 26:42.140 cycle 26:42.140 --> 26:44.140 that then stabilizes 26:44.140 --> 26:46.140 organisms, processes 26:46.140 --> 26:48.140 that are caught up in this 26:48.140 --> 26:50.140 in the phenomenon 26:50.140 --> 26:52.140 of being. The phenomenon 26:52.140 --> 26:54.140 of being is 26:54.140 --> 26:56.140 this self-synergizing 26:56.140 --> 26:58.140 engine of 26:58.140 --> 27:00.140 out of chaos 27:00.140 --> 27:02.140 through creativity 27:02.140 --> 27:04.140 into the imagination 27:04.140 --> 27:06.140 back into chaos 27:06.140 --> 27:08.140 out into creativity 27:08.140 --> 27:10.140 so forth and so on. 27:10.140 --> 27:12.140 And it operates on many levels 27:12.140 --> 27:14.140 simultaneously 27:14.140 --> 27:16.140 so that the planet 27:16.140 --> 27:18.140 is undergoing a destiny. 27:18.140 --> 27:20.140 Deep time, 27:20.140 --> 27:22.140 the time of geology 27:22.140 --> 27:24.140 was only really discovered 27:24.140 --> 27:26.140 around the turn of this century 27:26.140 --> 27:28.140 and it is 27:28.140 --> 27:30.140 cosmically 27:30.140 --> 27:32.140 ennobling 27:32.140 --> 27:34.140 to think of the universe 27:34.140 --> 27:36.140 as a thing of great age 27:36.140 --> 27:38.140 but I think that it's 27:38.140 --> 27:40.140 time to put in 27:40.140 --> 27:42.140 place next to the notion 27:42.140 --> 27:44.140 of deep cosmic time 27:44.140 --> 27:46.140 the notion of chaos 27:46.140 --> 27:48.140 the notion of chaotic 27:48.140 --> 27:50.140 sudden change 27:50.140 --> 27:52.140 cusp flux 27:52.140 --> 27:54.140 and sudden perturbation 27:54.140 --> 27:56.140 because 27:56.140 --> 27:58.140 what deep time has revealed 27:58.140 --> 28:00.140 as we've pushed our 28:00.140 --> 28:02.140 understanding of the career 28:02.140 --> 28:04.140 of organic life back 28:04.140 --> 28:06.140 65 million years 28:06.140 --> 28:08.140 270 million years 28:08.140 --> 28:10.140 what we see is 28:10.140 --> 28:12.140 tremendous punctuation 28:12.140 --> 28:14.140 built into the universe 28:14.140 --> 28:16.140 in the case of the earth 28:16.140 --> 28:18.140 in the case of astroidal impacts 28:18.140 --> 28:20.140 this thing which happened 28:20.140 --> 28:22.140 65 million years ago 28:22.140 --> 28:24.140 nothing larger than a chicken 28:24.140 --> 28:26.140 walked away from it 28:26.140 --> 28:28.140 on this planet 28:28.140 --> 28:30.140 so there's a strange paradox 28:30.140 --> 28:32.140 where taking 28:32.140 --> 28:34.140 deep time seriously 28:34.140 --> 28:36.140 the message of deep time 28:36.140 --> 28:38.140 is you may not have as much time 28:38.140 --> 28:40.140 as you thought 28:40.140 --> 28:42.140 that the universe is dynamic 28:42.140 --> 28:44.140 capable of turning 28:44.140 --> 28:46.140 sudden corners 28:46.140 --> 28:48.140 so then the imagination 28:48.140 --> 28:50.140 becomes a kind of beacon 28:50.140 --> 28:52.140 the imagination 28:52.140 --> 28:54.140 is as it were 28:54.140 --> 28:56.140 a scout 28:56.140 --> 28:58.140 sent ahead 28:58.140 --> 29:00.140 or a 29:00.140 --> 29:02.140 something which has preceded us 29:02.140 --> 29:04.140 into history 29:04.140 --> 29:06.140 and in fact 29:06.140 --> 29:08.140 is a kind of eschatological 29:08.140 --> 29:10.140 object 29:10.140 --> 29:12.140 it is shedding 29:12.140 --> 29:14.140 influence 29:14.140 --> 29:16.140 the morphogenetic field 29:16.140 --> 29:18.140 is not subject 29:18.140 --> 29:20.140 to the inverse square law 29:20.140 --> 29:22.140 of decreased influence 29:22.140 --> 29:24.140 over distance 29:24.140 --> 29:26.140 then I as a layman 29:26.140 --> 29:28.140 don't see why Rupert 29:28.140 --> 29:30.140 we couldn't locate it 29:30.140 --> 29:32.140 at the conclusion 29:32.140 --> 29:34.140 of process 29:34.140 --> 29:36.140 because one of the things 29:36.140 --> 29:38.140 that's always puzzled me 29:38.140 --> 29:40.140 about the big bang 29:40.140 --> 29:42.140 is it's a singularity 29:42.140 --> 29:44.140 this is the term 29:44.140 --> 29:46.140 physicists use for it 29:46.140 --> 29:48.140 this means theory 29:48.140 --> 29:50.140 cannot predict it 29:50.140 --> 29:52.140 and yet it is necessary 29:52.140 --> 29:54.140 to make everything which follows 29:54.140 --> 29:56.140 from it happen 29:56.140 --> 29:58.140 so you just say 29:58.140 --> 30:00.140 there's no reason for this 30:00.140 --> 30:02.140 we have no argument for this 30:02.140 --> 30:04.140 but the rest of the theory needs it 30:04.140 --> 30:06.140 so it's a singularity 30:06.140 --> 30:08.140 and the immense improbability 30:08.140 --> 30:10.140 which modern science rests on 30:10.140 --> 30:12.140 but cares not to discuss 30:12.140 --> 30:14.140 is this 30:14.140 --> 30:16.140 the belief that the universe 30:16.140 --> 30:18.140 sprang from nothing 30:18.140 --> 30:20.140 in a single moment 30:20.140 --> 30:22.140 well if you can make that leap 30:22.140 --> 30:24.140 to believe that 30:24.140 --> 30:26.140 it's very hard to see 30:26.140 --> 30:28.140 what you couldn't believe 30:28.140 --> 30:30.140 that is almost 30:30.140 --> 30:32.140 the limiting case 30:32.140 --> 30:34.140 of credulity 30:34.140 --> 30:36.140 I would think 30:36.140 --> 30:38.140 so 30:42.140 --> 30:47.400 so in order to save 30:47.400 --> 30:49.400 the phenomenon 30:49.400 --> 30:51.400 it's a different idea 30:51.400 --> 30:53.400 that 30:53.400 --> 30:55.400 and I think it is eminently 30:55.400 --> 30:57.400 reasonable and it is 30:57.400 --> 30:59.400 that as the complexity 30:59.400 --> 31:01.400 of a system increases 31:01.400 --> 31:03.400 so too 31:03.400 --> 31:05.400 does the likelihood 31:05.400 --> 31:07.400 of its generating 31:07.400 --> 31:09.400 a singularity 31:09.400 --> 31:11.400 or an unpredictable perturbation 31:11.400 --> 31:13.400 so the 31:13.400 --> 31:15.400 pre-existent state 31:15.400 --> 31:17.400 of the universe 31:17.400 --> 31:19.400 I imagine to be extremely simple 31:19.400 --> 31:21.400 an unflawed nothingness 31:21.400 --> 31:23.400 in other words 31:23.400 --> 31:25.400 the least likely situation 31:25.400 --> 31:27.400 in which you would expect 31:27.400 --> 31:29.400 a singularity to emerge 31:29.400 --> 31:31.400 but now let's look at the other end 31:31.400 --> 31:33.400 of the historical continuum 31:33.400 --> 31:35.400 of the history of the universe 31:35.400 --> 31:37.400 let's look at the 31:37.400 --> 31:39.400 world we are living in 31:39.400 --> 31:41.400 which is full of 31:41.400 --> 31:43.400 106 elements 31:43.400 --> 31:45.400 tremendous 31:45.400 --> 31:47.400 gradients of energy 31:47.400 --> 31:49.400 ranging from the 31:49.400 --> 31:51.400 what's going on inside pulsars 31:51.400 --> 31:53.400 and quasars 31:53.400 --> 31:55.400 to what is going on inside 31:55.400 --> 31:57.400 viruses and cells 31:57.400 --> 31:59.400 tremendous organizational 31:59.400 --> 32:01.400 capacity 32:01.400 --> 32:03.400 at the atomic level 32:03.400 --> 32:05.400 at the molecular level 32:05.400 --> 32:07.400 at the level of molecular polymerization 32:07.400 --> 32:09.400 at the level of 32:09.400 --> 32:11.400 membranes and gels 32:11.400 --> 32:13.400 at the level of 32:13.400 --> 32:15.400 cells and organelles 32:15.400 --> 32:17.400 organisms 32:17.400 --> 32:19.400 societies 32:19.400 --> 32:21.400 and so forth and so on 32:21.400 --> 32:23.400 in other words the universe 32:23.400 --> 32:25.400 at this moment 32:25.400 --> 32:27.400 is a tremendously 32:27.400 --> 32:29.400 complicated integrated 32:29.400 --> 32:31.400 multi-leveled dynamic thing 32:31.400 --> 32:33.400 and every passing moment 32:33.400 --> 32:35.400 it becomes more so 32:35.400 --> 32:37.400 this is what evolution 32:37.400 --> 32:39.400 history 32:39.400 --> 32:41.400 compression of time 32:41.400 --> 32:43.400 what all these things are attempting to indicate 32:43.400 --> 32:45.400 is the increasing complexity 32:45.400 --> 32:51.430 of reality 32:51.430 --> 32:53.430 if a singularity is necessary 32:53.430 --> 32:55.430 in this universe 32:55.430 --> 32:57.430 that singularity must emerge 32:57.430 --> 32:59.430 rather near the end 32:59.430 --> 33:01.430 of the complexification process 33:01.430 --> 33:03.430 rather than 33:03.430 --> 33:05.430 its beginning 33:05.430 --> 33:07.430 you see we simply have to reverse 33:07.430 --> 33:09.430 our preconceptions 33:09.430 --> 33:11.430 about the flow of cause and effect 33:11.430 --> 33:13.430 and then we get 33:13.430 --> 33:15.430 a great attractor 33:15.430 --> 33:17.430 that pulls 33:17.430 --> 33:19.430 all organization and structure 33:19.430 --> 33:21.430 toward itself 33:21.430 --> 33:23.430 over several billion years 33:23.430 --> 33:25.430 the objects 33:25.430 --> 33:27.430 of its attraction 33:27.430 --> 33:29.430 grow closer to its proximity 33:29.430 --> 33:31.430 they somehow 33:31.430 --> 33:33.430 interpenetrate 33:33.430 --> 33:35.430 they set up 33:35.430 --> 33:37.430 standing wave patterns 33:37.430 --> 33:41.000 of interference 33:41.000 --> 33:43.000 new properties 33:43.000 --> 33:45.000 become emergent 33:45.000 --> 33:47.000 and the entire thing 33:47.000 --> 33:49.000 complexifies 33:49.000 --> 33:51.000 well to my mind this is 33:51.000 --> 33:53.000 the divine 33:53.000 --> 33:55.000 imagination 33:55.000 --> 33:57.000 this is the only way 33:57.000 --> 33:59.000 I can conceive of it 33:59.000 --> 34:01.000 time is the theater 34:01.000 --> 34:03.000 of God's becoming 34:03.000 --> 34:05.000 but it's also 34:05.000 --> 34:07.000 from the point of view 34:07.000 --> 34:09.000 of a higher dimensional manifold 34:09.000 --> 34:11.000 a kind of 34:11.000 --> 34:13.000 and this is no contradiction 34:13.000 --> 34:15.000 or if it is 34:15.000 --> 34:17.000 it's all right 34:17.000 --> 34:19.000 because in these realms 34:19.000 --> 34:21.000 of higher ontology 34:21.000 --> 34:23.000 you're always asked 34:23.000 --> 34:25.000 to avoid closure 34:25.000 --> 34:27.000 or to avoid 34:27.000 --> 34:29.000 a union of opposites 34:29.000 --> 34:31.000 the thing is both 34:31.000 --> 34:33.000 what it is 34:33.000 --> 34:35.000 and what it is not 34:35.000 --> 34:37.000 and yet it somehow 34:37.000 --> 34:39.000 escapes contradiction 34:39.000 --> 34:41.000 and that's how 34:41.000 --> 34:43.000 the open system is maintained 34:43.000 --> 34:45.000 that's how 34:45.000 --> 34:47.000 the miracle of life 34:47.000 --> 34:49.000 is possible 34:49.000 --> 34:51.000 so I sort of think 34:51.000 --> 34:53.000 of the divine imagination 34:53.000 --> 34:55.000 as 34:55.000 --> 34:57.000 of all things 34:57.000 --> 34:59.000 both possible and beautiful 34:59.000 --> 35:01.000 it's a kind of reverse 35:01.000 --> 35:03.000 platonism 35:03.000 --> 35:05.000 the attractor is at the bottom 35:05.000 --> 35:07.000 of a very deep pit 35:07.000 --> 35:09.000 into which all phenomena 35:09.000 --> 35:11.000 is cascading 35:11.000 --> 35:13.000 what is taught 35:13.000 --> 35:15.000 in modern universities 35:15.000 --> 35:17.000 these days 35:17.000 --> 35:19.000 is that these tracks in the snow 35:19.000 --> 35:21.000 are going nowhere 35:21.000 --> 35:23.000 the technical term is 35:23.000 --> 35:25.000 trendlessly fluctuating 35:25.000 --> 35:27.000 you're told that history is 35:27.000 --> 35:29.000 this kind of process 35:29.000 --> 35:31.000 it's trendlessly fluctuating 35:31.000 --> 35:33.000 it goes here 35:33.000 --> 35:35.000 it goes there 35:35.000 --> 35:37.000 it's called a random walk 35:37.000 --> 35:39.000 in information theory 35:39.000 --> 35:41.000 it means you just wander around 35:41.000 --> 35:43.000 well it's very interesting 35:43.000 --> 35:45.000 now we begin to see 35:45.000 --> 35:47.000 through the marvel of 35:47.000 --> 35:49.000 the new mathematics 35:49.000 --> 35:51.000 that random walks 35:51.000 --> 35:53.000 are not random at all 35:53.000 --> 35:55.000 that a sufficiently long 35:55.000 --> 35:57.000 walk becomes a fractal 35:57.000 --> 35:59.000 structure of extraordinary 35:59.000 --> 36:01.000 depth and beauty 36:01.000 --> 36:03.000 so you see really what 36:03.000 --> 36:05.000 has to happen 36:05.000 --> 36:07.000 is for us to see chaos 36:07.000 --> 36:09.000 not as something 36:09.000 --> 36:11.000 that degrades information 36:11.000 --> 36:13.000 and is somehow 36:13.000 --> 36:15.000 the enemy of order 36:15.000 --> 36:17.000 but rather chaos is 36:17.000 --> 36:19.000 the birthplace 36:19.000 --> 36:21.000 of order 36:21.000 --> 36:23.000 chaos is not the problem 36:23.000 --> 36:25.000 chaos is the answer 36:25.000 --> 36:29.750 I think a factor 36:29.750 --> 36:31.750 which changes everything 36:31.750 --> 36:33.750 is the discovery of dark matter 36:33.750 --> 36:35.750 the fact that 90 to 95 36:35.750 --> 36:37.750 99% of the matter in the universe 36:37.750 --> 36:39.750 is utterly unknown to us 36:39.750 --> 36:41.750 this recent discovery effectively 36:41.750 --> 36:43.750 tells us that the whole cosmos 36:43.750 --> 36:45.750 and every material thing in it 36:45.750 --> 36:47.750 has a kind of unconscious 36:47.750 --> 36:49.750 an unknown dark realm 36:49.750 --> 36:51.750 which conditions everything 36:51.750 --> 36:53.750 that happens 36:53.750 --> 36:57.830 the shapes of the galaxies 36:57.830 --> 36:59.830 their interactions 36:59.830 --> 37:01.830 are awake on the side 37:01.830 --> 37:03.830 that's in the sunlight 37:03.830 --> 37:05.830 and in the side that's in the darkness 37:05.830 --> 37:07.830 as it rotates dreaming 37:07.830 --> 37:09.830 at night are the plants 37:09.830 --> 37:11.830 the animals the whole ecosystems 37:11.830 --> 37:13.830 the oceans in some sense 37:13.830 --> 37:15.830 in the dream state 37:15.830 --> 37:17.830 when dreams and spontaneous images 37:17.830 --> 37:19.830 of what might be possible 37:19.830 --> 37:21.830 come to them 37:21.830 --> 37:25.180 so is there a kind of 37:25.180 --> 37:27.180 Gaian dreaming 37:27.180 --> 37:29.180 and does it happen 37:29.180 --> 37:31.180 or what form would a Gaian 37:31.180 --> 37:35.260 psychedelic experience take 37:35.260 --> 37:37.260 the psychedelic experience 37:37.260 --> 37:39.260 it's preposterous to attempt 37:39.260 --> 37:41.260 to analyze it in terms of human motivation 37:41.260 --> 37:43.260 at its intense levels 37:43.260 --> 37:45.260 it seems rather to be 37:45.260 --> 37:47.260 an ontological 37:47.260 --> 37:49.260 reality of its own 37:49.260 --> 37:51.260 that the human being has simply 37:51.260 --> 37:53.260 been privileged to briefly 37:53.260 --> 37:55.260 observe 37:55.260 --> 37:57.260 but it says no more 37:57.260 --> 37:59.260 your deep psychedelic experiences 37:59.260 --> 38:01.260 say no more about 38:01.260 --> 38:03.260 your personality 38:03.260 --> 38:05.260 than that the continent of Africa 38:05.260 --> 38:07.260 is making a statement about 38:07.260 --> 38:09.260 your personality 38:09.260 --> 38:11.260 they are in fact independent 38:11.260 --> 38:13.260 objects 38:13.260 --> 38:15.260 to my mind the divine imagination 38:15.260 --> 38:17.260 or the imagination 38:17.260 --> 38:19.260 is this 38:19.260 --> 38:21.260 the source of all creativity 38:21.260 --> 38:23.260 in our dreams 38:23.260 --> 38:25.260 in our psychedelic experiences 38:25.260 --> 38:27.260 in the jungles 38:27.260 --> 38:29.260 in the currents of the ocean 38:29.260 --> 38:31.260 in the organization of 38:31.260 --> 38:33.260 microzoan and microbial life 38:33.260 --> 38:35.260 wherever there is 38:35.260 --> 38:37.260 large scale integration 38:37.260 --> 38:39.260 rather than simply 38:39.260 --> 38:41.260 raw physics 38:41.260 --> 38:43.260 but integration 38:43.260 --> 38:45.260 of laws of physics 38:45.260 --> 38:47.260 integration of properties 38:47.260 --> 38:49.260 of membranes and electrophoresis 38:49.260 --> 38:51.260 and this sort of thing 38:51.260 --> 38:54.630 it is the creative principle 38:54.630 --> 38:56.630 so do you think then 38:56.630 --> 38:58.630 that in psychedelic experiences 38:58.630 --> 39:00.630 you're actually tapping into 39:00.630 --> 39:02.630 tuning into or experiencing 39:02.630 --> 39:04.630 absolutely 39:04.630 --> 39:06.630 and I think that psychedelic experiences 39:06.630 --> 39:08.630 and dreams 39:08.630 --> 39:10.630 are only different in degree 39:10.630 --> 39:12.630 that they are chemical cousins 39:12.630 --> 39:14.630 somehow 39:14.630 --> 39:16.630 and this is why I could see 39:16.630 --> 39:18.630 human history as a Gaian dream 39:18.630 --> 39:20.630 because I think every night 39:20.630 --> 39:22.630 when you descend into dream 39:22.630 --> 39:24.630 you are potentially open 39:24.630 --> 39:26.630 to receiving Gaian 39:26.630 --> 39:28.630 corrective tuning 39:28.630 --> 39:30.630 of your life state 39:30.630 --> 39:32.630 you will 39:32.630 --> 39:34.630 the whole thing is 39:34.630 --> 39:36.630 an enzyme driven process 39:36.630 --> 39:38.630 we are like an organ of Gaia 39:38.630 --> 39:40.630 we are the 39:40.630 --> 39:42.630 organ which binds 39:42.630 --> 39:44.630 and releases energy 39:44.630 --> 39:46.630 I mean a liver cell 39:46.630 --> 39:48.630 doesn't need to understand 39:48.630 --> 39:50.630 why it binds and releases 39:50.630 --> 39:52.630 enzymes of the liver 39:52.630 --> 39:54.630 we bind and release energy 39:54.630 --> 39:56.630 for reasons perhaps never 39:56.630 --> 39:58.630 to be clear to us 39:58.630 --> 40:00.630 but which place us firmly 40:00.630 --> 40:02.630 within the context 40:02.630 --> 40:04.630 of the Gaian mind 40:04.630 --> 40:06.630 we have been chosen out 40:06.630 --> 40:08.630 and this is not something to 40:08.630 --> 40:10.630 have great hubris about 40:10.630 --> 40:12.630 I mean indolecetic acid 40:12.630 --> 40:14.630 has been chosen out 40:14.630 --> 40:16.630 in plant metabolism 40:16.630 --> 40:18.630 to play certain roles 40:18.630 --> 40:20.630 we have a role 40:20.630 --> 40:22.630 but our role seems to be 40:22.630 --> 40:24.630 a major one 40:24.630 --> 40:26.630 we are like a triggering system 40:26.630 --> 40:28.630 out of the general background 40:28.630 --> 40:30.630 of evolutionary processes 40:30.630 --> 40:32.630 mediated by 40:32.630 --> 40:34.630 incoming radiation 40:34.630 --> 40:36.630 to the surface of the earth 40:36.630 --> 40:38.630 and then natural selection 40:38.630 --> 40:40.630 suddenly we come 40:40.630 --> 40:42.630 with an epigenetic capability 40:42.630 --> 40:44.630 we write books 40:44.630 --> 40:46.630 tell stories 40:46.630 --> 40:48.630 dance, sing, carve 40:48.630 --> 40:50.630 paint 40:50.630 --> 40:52.630 these are not genetic processes 40:52.630 --> 40:54.630 these are epigenetic processes 40:54.630 --> 40:56.630 and they bind information 40:56.630 --> 40:58.630 and express the Gaian mind 40:58.630 --> 41:00.630 very well 41:00.630 --> 41:02.630 as an example 41:02.630 --> 41:04.630 of how willing I am 41:04.630 --> 41:06.630 to introduce 41:06.630 --> 41:08.630 or to entertain this idea concretely 41:08.630 --> 41:10.630 I've been talking to a lot of people 41:10.630 --> 41:12.630 about ecological crisis 41:12.630 --> 41:14.630 and the fate of the world 41:14.630 --> 41:16.630 and this sort of thing 41:16.630 --> 41:18.630 well imagine in hindsight 41:18.630 --> 41:20.630 the wisdom 41:20.630 --> 41:22.630 that we would impute to Gaia 41:22.630 --> 41:24.630 if we were to suddenly realize 41:24.630 --> 41:26.630 that what is happening 41:26.630 --> 41:28.630 on this planet 41:28.630 --> 41:30.630 is that nature knows 41:30.630 --> 41:32.630 that there are 41:32.630 --> 41:34.630 a lot of things 41:34.630 --> 41:36.630 that the sun is going to explode 41:36.630 --> 41:38.630 and what we are 41:38.630 --> 41:40.630 is a kind of response 41:40.630 --> 41:42.630 to the anticipation 41:42.630 --> 41:44.630 of a wounding 41:44.630 --> 41:46.630 that 50,000 41:46.630 --> 41:48.630 5 million years ago 41:48.630 --> 41:50.630 the geo heliocentric 41:50.630 --> 41:52.630 relationships began 41:52.630 --> 41:54.630 to vibrate 41:54.630 --> 41:56.630 out of tune 41:56.630 --> 41:58.630 and 41:58.630 --> 42:00.630 as a consequence 42:00.630 --> 42:02.630 of this a species was called 42:02.630 --> 42:04.630 and we are it 42:04.630 --> 42:06.630 in other words 42:06.630 --> 42:08.630 we are in a divine play 42:08.630 --> 42:10.630 in line with this 42:10.630 --> 42:12.630 and what made me 42:12.630 --> 42:14.630 even entertain these ideas 42:14.630 --> 42:16.630 is I had a very bizarre 42:16.630 --> 42:18.630 experience recently 42:18.630 --> 42:20.630 I was in Hawaii 42:20.630 --> 42:22.630 and 42:22.630 --> 42:24.630 in our botanical garden 42:24.630 --> 42:26.630 there is a very large 42:26.630 --> 42:28.630 dead tree 42:28.630 --> 42:30.630 and one limb of this tree 42:30.630 --> 42:32.630 sticks far out 42:32.630 --> 42:34.630 over the land 42:34.630 --> 42:36.630 and Banisteriopsis 42:36.630 --> 42:38.630 copy a large 42:38.630 --> 42:40.630 hallucinogenic South American vine 42:40.630 --> 42:42.630 is planted at the 42:42.630 --> 42:44.630 bottom of this tree 42:44.630 --> 42:46.630 and it just has 42:46.630 --> 42:48.630 swarmed up this tree 42:48.630 --> 42:50.630 and covered it with greenery 42:50.630 --> 42:52.630 but it wouldn't go out 42:52.630 --> 42:54.630 onto this one limb 42:54.630 --> 42:56.630 that stuck out 42:56.630 --> 42:58.630 and it bothered my sense of symmetry 42:58.630 --> 43:00.630 that this vine would not 43:00.630 --> 43:02.630 completely cover this tree 43:02.630 --> 43:04.630 and I even thought about 43:04.630 --> 43:06.630 trying to climb up into the tree 43:06.630 --> 43:08.630 and thread it out onto this limb 43:08.630 --> 43:10.630 to get it to do what I wanted 43:10.630 --> 43:12.630 so I was sitting 43:12.630 --> 43:14.630 looking at this tree 43:14.630 --> 43:16.630 and this situation 43:16.630 --> 43:18.630 and actually thinking about it 43:18.630 --> 43:20.630 and suddenly 43:20.630 --> 43:22.630 the limb fell 43:22.630 --> 43:24.630 it broke off 43:24.630 --> 43:26.630 and then I thought 43:26.630 --> 43:28.630 and I thought 43:28.630 --> 43:30.630 the vine sensed 43:30.630 --> 43:32.630 it was unstable 43:32.630 --> 43:34.630 it would not invade 43:34.630 --> 43:36.630 this domain 43:36.630 --> 43:38.630 that it sensed 43:38.630 --> 43:40.630 was structurally unstable 43:40.630 --> 43:42.630 well then I said to myself 43:42.630 --> 43:44.630 how could it 43:44.630 --> 43:46.630 what is the mechanism 43:46.630 --> 43:48.630 of this sensing 43:48.630 --> 43:50.630 of instability 43:50.630 --> 43:52.630 and a friend of mine said 43:52.630 --> 43:54.630 well perhaps the wind 43:54.630 --> 43:56.630 impacts on weakened wood 43:56.630 --> 43:58.630 differently than on unrotted wood 43:58.630 --> 44:00.630 and perhaps rhythms in the tree 44:00.630 --> 44:02.630 and then I realized 44:02.630 --> 44:04.630 if one plant 44:04.630 --> 44:06.630 has that kind of sensitivity 44:06.630 --> 44:08.630 to the entering into 44:08.630 --> 44:10.630 a domain of danger 44:10.630 --> 44:12.630 what must the ecosystem 44:12.630 --> 44:14.630 of this planet 44:14.630 --> 44:16.630 be doing in reaction 44:16.630 --> 44:18.630 to what we are doing 44:18.630 --> 44:20.630 to the planet 44:20.630 --> 44:22.630 so I see 44:22.630 --> 44:24.630 the reason this relates to the imagination 44:24.630 --> 44:26.630 is because I see 44:26.630 --> 44:28.630 ourselves 44:28.630 --> 44:30.630 in communication 44:30.630 --> 44:32.630 with the imagination 44:32.630 --> 44:34.630 it is sending images 44:34.630 --> 44:36.630 back into the past 44:36.630 --> 44:38.630 to try and direct us 44:38.630 --> 44:40.630 away from areas 44:40.630 --> 44:42.630 of instability 44:42.630 --> 44:44.630 it really is 44:44.630 --> 44:46.630 the guy in mind 44:46.630 --> 44:48.630 is a real mind 44:48.630 --> 44:50.630 its messages are real messages 44:50.630 --> 44:52.630 and our task 44:52.630 --> 44:54.630 through discipline 44:54.630 --> 44:56.630 psychedelics 44:56.630 --> 44:58.630 attention to detail 44:58.630 --> 45:00.630 whatever we have going 45:00.630 --> 45:02.630 is from the message 45:02.630 --> 45:04.630 so that we then can 45:04.630 --> 45:09.510 see the face of the other 45:09.510 --> 45:13.820 the field of chaos 45:13.820 --> 45:15.820 the certain setting of the parameter 45:15.820 --> 45:17.820 form will emerge out of 45:17.820 --> 45:19.820 the field of chaos 45:19.820 --> 45:21.820 and where this happens reliably 45:21.820 --> 45:23.820 we've explored the ocean all over 45:23.820 --> 45:25.820 and we've found a few favorite regions 45:25.820 --> 45:27.820 and they're called the Apache Rift 45:27.820 --> 45:29.820 the Calico Mountain 45:29.820 --> 45:31.820 and the Scroll Reef 45:33.820 --> 45:35.820 so the submarine is dragging along 45:35.820 --> 45:37.820 a thousand iterations depth 45:37.820 --> 45:41.350 in the ocean of chaos 45:41.350 --> 45:43.350 comes across these regular patterns 45:43.350 --> 45:45.350 this is the first 45:45.350 --> 45:47.350 wing of 45:47.350 --> 45:49.350 the uh 45:49.350 --> 45:51.350 Apache Valley 45:51.350 --> 45:53.350 this is Apache Valley 45:53.350 --> 46:00.660 I think so 46:00.660 --> 46:20.390 we've got another field of chaos 46:20.390 --> 46:25.270 Calico Mountain 46:25.270 --> 46:27.270 these are just snapshots of different 46:27.270 --> 46:29.270 starting positions if you like 46:29.270 --> 46:31.270 later on we drill a deep hole in this area 46:31.270 --> 46:35.580 and all other interesting areas 46:35.580 --> 46:37.580 instead of this quaternary structure 46:37.580 --> 46:39.580 that is the question 46:39.580 --> 46:41.580 this is a scroll reef 46:41.580 --> 46:43.580 now it's a little presumptuous 46:43.580 --> 46:45.580 to call this chaos theory 46:45.580 --> 46:47.580 because as a matter of fact 46:47.580 --> 46:49.580 there is no theory 46:49.580 --> 46:51.580 we're in the exploration phase now 46:51.580 --> 46:53.580 and this is experimental mathematics 46:53.580 --> 46:55.580 that we are doing with supercomputers 46:55.580 --> 46:57.580 this video was made out of these 46:57.580 --> 46:59.580 simplest possible dynamical systems 46:59.580 --> 47:01.580 called the logistic equation 47:01.580 --> 47:03.580 and it just produces 47:03.580 --> 47:05.580 it's very similar to a dripping flood 47:05.580 --> 47:07.580 so you could just as well imagine 47:07.580 --> 47:09.580 that we have 16,000 47:09.580 --> 47:11.580 dripping faucets 47:11.580 --> 47:13.580 in an array of 47:13.580 --> 47:15.580 128 by 128 47:15.580 --> 47:17.580 and 47:17.580 --> 47:19.580 the time between drops 47:19.580 --> 47:21.580 is represented as a color on the screen 47:21.580 --> 47:23.580 now do you think 47:23.580 --> 47:25.580 that if you had 16,000 dripping faucets 47:25.580 --> 47:27.580 you could get out of them 47:27.580 --> 47:29.580 a pattern like Calico Mountain 47:29.580 --> 47:31.580 it relates 47:31.580 --> 47:33.580 to waterfalls 47:33.580 --> 47:35.580 for example when the spray 47:35.580 --> 47:37.580 from a waterfall 47:37.580 --> 47:39.580 here's another example of a chaotic system 47:39.580 --> 47:41.580 could you write some equations 47:41.580 --> 47:43.580 and obtain a computer program 47:43.580 --> 47:45.580 that simulated the spray from a waterfall 47:45.580 --> 47:47.580 I doubt it 47:47.580 --> 47:49.580 and from this totally chaotic data 47:49.580 --> 47:51.580 viewed in this particular way 47:51.580 --> 47:53.580 which is called chaoscopy 47:53.580 --> 47:55.580 you get these points in the planes 47:55.580 --> 47:57.580 that if the data was really 47:57.580 --> 47:59.580 random 47:59.580 --> 48:01.580 the dots would be all over the plane 48:01.580 --> 48:03.580 instead they lie on a curve 48:03.580 --> 48:05.580 a smooth curve 48:05.580 --> 48:07.580 which is called the chaotic attractor 48:07.580 --> 48:09.580 well it happens 48:09.580 --> 48:11.580 I mean there's a lot of theory 48:11.580 --> 48:13.580 behind this enough to suggest 48:13.580 --> 48:15.580 that it's not some kind of artifact 48:15.580 --> 48:17.580 no matter what kind of artifact it is 48:17.580 --> 48:19.580 it's an interesting artifact 48:19.580 --> 48:21.580 and 48:21.580 --> 48:23.580 I guess I'd like to call this 48:23.580 --> 48:25.580 a mathematical law 48:25.580 --> 48:27.580 it has to do with the emergence 48:27.580 --> 48:29.580 of form from a field of chaos 48:29.580 --> 48:31.580 we don't know what else to call it 48:31.580 --> 48:33.580 it's not a mathematical law 48:33.580 --> 48:35.580 that was known to Pythagoras 48:35.580 --> 48:37.580 I don't know if it was always there 48:37.580 --> 48:39.580 since the beginning of time 48:39.580 --> 48:41.580 long before the big bang 48:41.580 --> 48:43.580 or if it just emerged 48:43.580 --> 48:45.580 into the evolving field of the guy in mind 48:45.580 --> 48:47.580 through the fact that computers make it visible 48:47.580 --> 48:49.580 I mean I don't know 48:49.580 --> 48:51.580 but the theory can tell you 48:51.580 --> 48:53.580 certain transformations you'll expect 48:53.580 --> 48:55.580 and others not 48:55.580 --> 48:57.580 for example Terence had pointed to 48:57.580 --> 48:59.580 the punctual aspect of evolution 48:59.580 --> 49:01.580 that many transformations are 49:01.580 --> 49:03.580 saltatory 49:03.580 --> 49:05.580 they are catastrophic, they are abrupt 49:05.580 --> 49:07.580 as for example in the emergence of form 49:07.580 --> 49:09.580 as for example in the neolithic revolution 49:09.580 --> 49:11.580 as for example in the crystallization of the planets 49:11.580 --> 49:13.580 as the temperature drops 49:13.580 --> 49:16.820 in the developing universe 49:16.820 --> 49:18.820 according to standard models 49:18.820 --> 49:20.820 more and more form comes into being 49:20.820 --> 49:22.820 first you get atoms 49:22.820 --> 49:24.820 then stars and galaxies condense 49:24.820 --> 49:26.820 then you get solar systems 49:26.820 --> 49:28.820 and through the cooling of matter 49:28.820 --> 49:30.820 you can get planets 49:30.820 --> 49:32.820 the planets are the cooled remnants 49:32.820 --> 49:34.820 of exploding stars 49:34.820 --> 49:36.820 the elements in us and in our planet 49:36.820 --> 49:38.820 and in the novi 49:38.820 --> 49:40.820 one way of looking at this 49:40.820 --> 49:42.820 is to see the expansion and cooling process 49:42.820 --> 49:44.820 and indeed the flow of events 49:44.820 --> 49:46.820 as being 49:46.820 --> 49:48.820 thinking of it in terms of the flux of energy 49:48.820 --> 49:50.820 and one of the great unifying concepts 49:50.820 --> 49:52.820 of 19th century physics 49:52.820 --> 49:54.820 is a unified conception of energy 49:54.820 --> 49:56.820 now it's not entirely clear 49:56.820 --> 49:58.820 what energy is 49:58.820 --> 50:00.820 energy in some senses 50:00.820 --> 50:02.820 is the principle of change 50:02.820 --> 50:04.820 the more there is the more change 50:04.820 --> 50:06.820 that can be brought about 50:06.820 --> 50:08.820 it's a causative principle 50:08.820 --> 50:10.820 and it's a causative principle 50:10.820 --> 50:12.820 which exists in a process 50:12.820 --> 50:14.820 in this process 50:14.820 --> 50:16.820 the energetic flux of the universe 50:16.820 --> 50:18.820 underlies time 50:18.820 --> 50:20.820 change, becoming 50:20.820 --> 50:22.820 and the flux process 50:22.820 --> 50:24.820 itself seems to have 50:24.820 --> 50:26.820 an inherent indeterminism 50:26.820 --> 50:28.820 to it 50:28.820 --> 50:30.820 this flux process 50:30.820 --> 50:32.820 the universal flux 50:32.820 --> 50:34.820 is organized into forms 50:34.820 --> 50:36.820 by fields 50:36.820 --> 50:38.820 as energy bound within fields 50:38.820 --> 50:40.820 the quantum matter fields 50:40.820 --> 50:42.820 and the fields of molecules 50:42.820 --> 50:44.820 and so on 50:44.820 --> 50:46.820 I think there are many of these organizing fields 50:46.820 --> 50:48.820 the morphic fields 50:48.820 --> 50:50.820 and nature is the theatre of these 50:50.820 --> 50:52.820 habitual fields organizing the 50:52.820 --> 50:54.820 indeterminate flux of energy 50:54.820 --> 50:56.820 fields themselves by 50:56.820 --> 50:58.820 having this energy within them 50:58.820 --> 51:00.820 have this indeterminate quality too 51:00.820 --> 51:02.820 so even organized systems 51:02.820 --> 51:04.820 of a high level of complexity 51:04.820 --> 51:06.820 still have this probabilistic quality 51:06.820 --> 51:08.820 to organize this energy 51:08.820 --> 51:10.820 to give rise to material and physical forms 51:10.820 --> 51:12.820 are themselves probabilistic 51:12.820 --> 51:14.820 chaos is never eliminated 51:14.820 --> 51:16.820 there's always this indeterminism 51:16.820 --> 51:18.820 or spontaneity at all levels of organization 51:18.820 --> 51:20.820 so there's a formative principle 51:20.820 --> 51:22.820 which is the fields 51:22.820 --> 51:24.820 and there's an energetic principle 51:24.820 --> 51:26.820 which I think has the chaos inherent in it 51:26.820 --> 51:28.820 it's a kind of change 51:28.820 --> 51:30.820 which left as pure change 51:30.820 --> 51:32.820 would be chaos 51:32.820 --> 51:34.820 one way of thinking of these 51:34.820 --> 51:36.820 is in terms of the Indian notion 51:36.820 --> 51:38.820 is the energy indeterminate principle 51:38.820 --> 51:40.820 and Shiva is the formative principle 51:40.820 --> 51:42.820 working together 51:42.820 --> 51:44.820 in a kind of tantric union 51:44.820 --> 51:51.430 to give the world that we know 51:51.430 --> 51:53.430 creation begins in chaos 51:53.430 --> 51:55.430 progresses in chaos 51:55.430 --> 51:57.430 and ends in chaos 51:59.430 --> 52:01.430 and in Hesiod 52:01.430 --> 52:03.430 this word chaos 52:03.430 --> 52:05.430 appears in a piece called 52:05.430 --> 52:07.430 Theogony which is a theogony 52:07.430 --> 52:09.430 that is to say more or less a creation tale 52:09.430 --> 52:11.430 but the stories of the creation of the 52:11.430 --> 52:13.430 gods and goddesses one by one 52:13.430 --> 52:15.430 well they're not gods and goddesses really 52:15.430 --> 52:17.430 they're abstract principles 52:17.430 --> 52:19.430 the three main ones are 52:19.430 --> 52:21.430 chaos, Gaia, and Eros 52:21.430 --> 52:23.430 and they're 52:23.430 --> 52:25.430 the most abstract earliest 52:25.430 --> 52:27.430 proto 52:27.430 --> 52:29.430 concepts of sky 52:29.430 --> 52:31.430 earth and the creative tension 52:31.430 --> 52:33.430 in between 52:33.430 --> 52:35.430 now the meaning of chaos 52:35.430 --> 52:37.430 the first time the word appeared 52:37.430 --> 52:39.430 in literature 52:39.430 --> 52:41.430 has got nothing whatsoever apparently 52:41.430 --> 52:43.430 superficially 52:43.430 --> 52:45.430 to do with what we mean by 52:45.430 --> 52:47.430 chaos in the English language 52:47.430 --> 52:49.430 and in ordinary life 52:49.430 --> 52:51.430 it meant only to Hesiod 52:51.430 --> 52:53.430 according to the lexicon 52:53.430 --> 52:55.430 the gaping void 52:55.430 --> 52:57.430 left 52:57.430 --> 52:59.430 the gaping void 52:59.430 --> 53:01.430 sort of the gaping void between heaven and earth 53:01.430 --> 53:03.430 out of which the creation 53:03.430 --> 53:05.430 came so creation out of chaos 53:05.430 --> 53:07.430 yes but the chaos 53:07.430 --> 53:09.430 did not mean disorder or anything negative 53:09.430 --> 53:11.430 it only meant this gaping void 53:11.430 --> 53:13.430 well after understanding that 53:13.430 --> 53:15.430 you look up 53:15.430 --> 53:17.430 you think of these different interpretations 53:17.430 --> 53:19.430 sky, god concept 53:19.430 --> 53:21.430 the gap and the opening and so on 53:21.430 --> 53:23.430 when you look at the sky 53:23.430 --> 53:25.430 the most obvious 53:25.430 --> 53:27.430 chief characteristic feature of the sky 53:27.430 --> 53:29.430 is the milky way 53:29.430 --> 53:31.430 and it does appear as a kind of a gap 53:31.430 --> 53:33.430 between this and that 53:33.430 --> 53:35.430 the royal road of the gods traveling 53:35.430 --> 53:37.430 between the underworld and the overworld 53:37.430 --> 53:39.430 understanding that 53:39.430 --> 53:41.430 you can then connect the word 53:41.430 --> 53:43.430 concept 53:43.430 --> 53:45.430 or god or goddess 53:45.430 --> 53:47.430 meaning the same thing 53:47.430 --> 53:49.430 as what you visually see represented 53:49.430 --> 53:51.430 in the milky way itself 53:51.430 --> 53:53.430 and that is in one of its 53:53.430 --> 53:55.430 most popular representations 53:55.430 --> 53:57.430 Tiamat 53:57.430 --> 53:59.430 the goddess of chaos 53:59.430 --> 54:01.430 from Enuma Elish 54:01.430 --> 54:03.430 the creation poem 54:03.430 --> 54:05.430 the greatest epic poem 54:05.430 --> 54:07.430 of Babylonian literature 54:07.430 --> 54:09.430 discovered in the library 54:09.430 --> 54:11.430 of Ashurbanipal at Nineveh 54:11.430 --> 54:13.430 a recent discovery 54:13.430 --> 54:15.430 there was 54:15.430 --> 54:17.430 this story of 54:17.430 --> 54:19.430 the origin of the gods 54:19.430 --> 54:21.430 and the creation of the world 54:21.430 --> 54:23.430 by Tiamat 54:23.430 --> 54:25.430 and Apsu 54:25.430 --> 54:27.430 the god and goddess of chaos 54:27.430 --> 54:29.430 who lived in the water 54:29.430 --> 54:31.430 one more sweet water and the other salt water 54:31.430 --> 54:33.430 and they created then the whole pantheon 54:33.430 --> 54:37.000 and the whole world and so on 54:37.000 --> 54:39.000 but eventually along came 54:39.000 --> 54:41.000 Marduk 54:41.000 --> 54:43.000 Marduk was a younger generation of gods 54:43.000 --> 54:45.000 and there was a conflict 54:45.000 --> 54:47.000 between the older and the younger 54:47.000 --> 54:49.000 gods over how the world 54:49.000 --> 54:51.000 ought to be run 54:51.000 --> 54:53.000 and apparently this conflict 54:53.000 --> 54:55.000 was taking place in the form 54:55.000 --> 54:57.000 of a social transformation 54:57.000 --> 54:59.000 a transformation represented 54:59.000 --> 55:01.000 in the mythological 55:01.000 --> 55:03.000 by the demotion of Apsu and Tiamat 55:03.000 --> 55:05.000 from the pantheon of Babylon 55:05.000 --> 55:07.000 the city Babylon 55:07.000 --> 55:09.000 and the replacement by Marduk 55:09.000 --> 55:11.000 eventually became the god 55:11.000 --> 55:13.000 Mr. Big 55:13.000 --> 55:15.000 the city of Babylon 55:15.000 --> 55:17.000 around 2000 BC 55:17.000 --> 55:19.000 coinciding 55:19.000 --> 55:21.000 with a sweep of patriarchy 55:21.000 --> 55:23.000 over that city 55:23.000 --> 55:25.000 propelled on a new type of war chariot 55:25.000 --> 55:27.000 with spoked wheels instead 55:27.000 --> 55:29.000 of solid wheels 55:29.000 --> 55:31.000 am I digressing too much? 55:31.000 --> 55:33.000 no, you've reached the wheel 55:33.000 --> 55:35.000 laughter 55:35.000 --> 55:37.000 well I've reached the spoke wheel 55:37.000 --> 55:39.000 and its association with 55:39.000 --> 55:41.000 is this accidental? I don't know 55:41.000 --> 55:43.000 with the patriarchy and the fact that the wheel itself 55:43.000 --> 55:45.000 is a mathematical model 55:45.000 --> 55:47.000 is the paradigm 55:47.000 --> 55:49.000 of order 55:49.000 --> 55:51.000 a divine mathematical form 55:51.000 --> 55:53.000 according to Plato 55:53.000 --> 55:55.000 as the planets were supposed 55:55.000 --> 55:57.000 to move before 55:57.000 --> 55:59.000 Kepler 55:59.000 --> 56:01.000 who introduced the ellipse 56:01.000 --> 56:03.000 fantastic transformation 56:03.000 --> 56:05.000 punctual 56:05.000 --> 56:07.000 catastrophe 56:07.000 --> 56:10.340 in the history of consciousness 56:10.340 --> 56:12.340 in short 56:12.340 --> 56:14.340 according to this epic 56:14.340 --> 56:16.340 Tiamat was killed 56:16.340 --> 56:18.340 in the most violent way 56:18.340 --> 56:20.340 ripped to pieces 56:20.340 --> 56:22.340 creating the world 56:22.340 --> 56:24.340 creating a new order 56:24.340 --> 56:26.340 by our hero of Babylon 56:26.340 --> 56:28.340 Mr. Marduk 56:28.340 --> 56:30.340 also Bell, Bow and so on 56:30.340 --> 56:32.340 his new year's celebration 56:32.340 --> 56:34.340 was honored 56:34.340 --> 56:36.340 at the new year time 56:36.340 --> 56:38.340 all over old Europe 56:38.340 --> 56:40.340 including at Stonehenge 56:40.340 --> 56:42.340 at the new year's festival 56:42.340 --> 56:44.340 this epic poem was read 56:44.340 --> 56:46.340 so annually 56:46.340 --> 56:48.340 was the reminder 56:48.340 --> 56:50.340 that chaos is bad 56:50.340 --> 56:52.340 chaos has been killed 56:52.340 --> 56:54.340 chaos has been replaced by order 56:54.340 --> 56:56.340 an order associated with 56:56.340 --> 56:58.340 perfect periodic 56:58.340 --> 57:00.340 the wheel 57:00.340 --> 57:02.340 the cycle 57:02.340 --> 57:04.340 the perfect roundness 57:04.340 --> 57:06.340 and so on 57:06.340 --> 57:08.340 whereas in Mino and Crete 57:08.340 --> 57:10.340 you find according to 57:10.340 --> 57:12.340 the evidence of the excavators 57:12.340 --> 57:14.340 the fluorescence 57:14.340 --> 57:16.340 of partnership culture 57:16.340 --> 57:18.340 with no domination 57:18.340 --> 57:24.440 by a male god 57:24.440 --> 57:26.440 it's established that there's 57:26.440 --> 57:28.440 the diffusion from Crete to Greece 57:28.440 --> 57:30.440 and the last remainder 57:30.440 --> 57:32.440 of Cretan culture 57:32.440 --> 57:34.440 which is a very interesting one 57:34.440 --> 57:36.440 must have been 57:36.440 --> 57:38.440 the last vestige of the Garden of Eden 57:38.440 --> 57:40.440 we're talking about 57:40.440 --> 57:42.440 the tremendous happiness 57:42.440 --> 57:44.440 and fluorescence 57:44.440 --> 57:46.440 of beauty in all aspects 57:46.440 --> 57:49.720 the importance of 57:49.720 --> 57:51.720 the chaos revolution now 57:51.720 --> 57:53.720 is that chaos has recovered 57:53.720 --> 57:55.720 from being demoted 57:55.720 --> 57:57.720 from being banished 57:57.720 --> 57:59.720 to the unconscious 57:59.720 --> 58:01.720 in around 2000 BC or so 58:01.720 --> 58:03.720 from then up to now 58:03.720 --> 58:05.720 four or maybe five thousand years 58:05.720 --> 58:07.720 of the repression of chaos 58:07.720 --> 58:09.720 I mean chaos is to this day 58:09.720 --> 58:11.720 in our culture a bad word 58:11.720 --> 58:13.720 we have to watch out for chaos 58:13.720 --> 58:15.720 it ruins your love life 58:15.720 --> 58:17.720 it has to be replaced by order 58:17.720 --> 58:19.720 and so on 58:19.720 --> 58:21.720 the fact that scientists of all people 58:21.720 --> 58:23.720 in the temple of science 58:23.720 --> 58:25.720 that Tiamat has to be accepted 58:25.720 --> 58:27.720 as a friend and replaced upon her throne 58:27.720 --> 58:36.060 this is big news 58:36.060 --> 58:38.060 I believe that the importance 58:38.060 --> 58:40.060 of the psychedelics 58:40.060 --> 58:42.060 is primary here 58:42.060 --> 58:44.060 and that it doesn't simply 58:44.060 --> 58:46.060 have to do with the fact 58:46.060 --> 58:48.060 that they synergize cognition 58:48.060 --> 58:50.060 which they do do 58:50.060 --> 58:52.060 and the synthetics 58:52.060 --> 58:54.060 as well as 58:54.060 --> 58:56.060 the natural ones 58:56.060 --> 58:58.060 but it's deeper than that 58:58.060 --> 59:00.060 it's that we have a secret history 59:02.060 --> 59:04.060 knowledge of which has been 59:04.060 --> 59:06.060 lost to us 59:06.060 --> 59:08.060 and only is now recoverable 59:08.060 --> 59:10.060 in the light 59:10.060 --> 59:12.060 of the kind of mindset 59:12.060 --> 59:14.060 that becomes possible to us 59:14.060 --> 59:16.060 if we accept 59:16.060 --> 59:18.060 the new paradigm 59:18.060 --> 59:20.060 and what this secret history 59:20.060 --> 59:22.060 is and has to do with 59:22.060 --> 59:24.060 and how it relates to the 59:24.060 --> 59:26.060 human mind and the world soul 59:26.060 --> 59:28.060 is that 59:28.060 --> 59:30.060 we are 59:30.060 --> 59:32.060 the victims 59:32.060 --> 59:34.060 of an instance 59:34.060 --> 59:36.060 of traumatic abuse 59:36.060 --> 59:38.060 in childhood 59:38.060 --> 59:40.060 as a species 59:40.060 --> 59:42.060 because a symbiotic relationship 59:42.060 --> 59:44.060 with 59:44.060 --> 59:46.060 the world girdling 59:46.060 --> 59:48.060 intelligence of the planet 59:48.060 --> 59:50.060 which was mediated 59:50.060 --> 59:52.060 through plants 59:52.060 --> 59:54.060 through shamanism 59:54.060 --> 59:56.060 I mean it wasn't an abstraction 59:56.060 --> 59:58.060 it was an experience 59:58.060 --> 01:00:00.060 was eventually 01:00:00.060 --> 01:00:02.060 broken up and disrupted 01:00:02.060 --> 01:00:04.060 by 01:00:04.060 --> 01:00:06.060 progressive climatic 01:00:06.060 --> 01:00:08.060 drying of 01:00:08.060 --> 01:00:10.060 the Eurasian and African 01:00:10.060 --> 01:00:12.060 land mass 01:00:12.060 --> 01:00:14.060 and so this is 01:00:14.060 --> 01:00:16.060 literally the fall into history 01:00:16.060 --> 01:00:18.060 the expulsion from Eden 01:00:18.060 --> 01:00:20.060 all these primary myths of a golden age 01:00:20.060 --> 01:00:22.060 found and lost 01:00:22.060 --> 01:00:24.060 have to do with the fact that 01:00:24.060 --> 01:00:26.060 once we lived 01:00:26.060 --> 01:00:28.060 in dynamic balance 01:00:28.060 --> 01:00:30.060 with nature 01:00:30.060 --> 01:00:32.060 not as animals do 01:00:32.060 --> 01:00:34.060 but as human beings 01:00:34.060 --> 01:00:36.060 only could 01:00:36.060 --> 01:00:38.060 but in a way that we have 01:00:38.060 --> 01:00:40.060 now lost 01:00:40.060 --> 01:00:42.060 well how have we lost it 01:00:42.060 --> 01:00:44.060 and what have we lost 01:00:44.060 --> 01:00:46.060 how we have lost it is 01:00:46.060 --> 01:00:48.060 the way in which 01:00:48.060 --> 01:00:50.060 these 01:00:50.060 --> 01:00:52.060 psychoactive compounds 01:00:52.060 --> 01:00:54.060 that were being brought into the diet 01:00:54.060 --> 01:00:56.060 were acting 01:00:56.060 --> 01:00:58.060 is they were 01:00:58.060 --> 01:01:00.060 psycholytic upon the formation of the ego 01:01:00.060 --> 01:01:02.060 they literally 01:01:02.060 --> 01:01:04.060 suppressed the formulation 01:01:04.060 --> 01:01:06.060 of the 01:01:06.060 --> 01:01:08.060 the formation of the ego 01:01:08.060 --> 01:01:10.060 and promoted instead 01:01:10.060 --> 01:01:12.060 collectivist tribal 01:01:12.060 --> 01:01:14.060 partnership values 01:01:14.060 --> 01:01:16.060 which were operating 01:01:16.060 --> 01:01:18.060 intuitionally 01:01:18.060 --> 01:01:20.060 in a resonance relationship 01:01:20.060 --> 01:01:22.060 with the 01:01:22.060 --> 01:01:24.060 feminine vegetable matrix of the planet 01:01:24.060 --> 01:01:26.060 everything was 01:01:26.060 --> 01:01:28.060 fertilized, everything was felt 01:01:28.060 --> 01:01:30.060 everything was 01:01:30.060 --> 01:01:32.060 intuited and regularly 01:01:32.060 --> 01:01:34.060 at the new and full moon 01:01:34.060 --> 01:01:36.060 these small groups of hunter gatherers 01:01:36.060 --> 01:01:38.060 later pastoralists 01:01:38.060 --> 01:01:40.060 gathered and 01:01:40.060 --> 01:01:42.060 took these hallucinogenic 01:01:42.060 --> 01:01:44.060 plants and 01:01:44.060 --> 01:01:46.060 dissolved boundaries 01:01:46.060 --> 01:01:48.060 and engaged in 01:01:48.060 --> 01:01:50.060 group sex and 01:01:50.060 --> 01:01:52.060 annealed 01:01:52.060 --> 01:01:54.060 a new word that we've brought in here 01:01:54.060 --> 01:01:56.060 the irregularities 01:01:56.060 --> 01:01:58.060 that had cropped up in people's 01:01:58.060 --> 01:02:00.060 personal self imaging 01:02:00.060 --> 01:02:02.060 in the interval since the last 01:02:02.060 --> 01:02:04.060 session 01:02:04.060 --> 01:02:06.060 and this kept everything 01:02:06.060 --> 01:02:08.060 grounded 01:02:08.060 --> 01:02:10.060 on the 01:02:10.060 --> 01:02:12.060 plane of that which is 01:02:12.060 --> 01:02:14.060 important, i.e. the values 01:02:14.060 --> 01:02:16.060 of the group, of the species 01:02:16.060 --> 01:02:18.060 of dynamic balance 01:02:18.060 --> 01:02:20.060 with the ecosystem and so forth and so on 01:02:20.060 --> 01:02:22.060 well when this was disrupted 01:02:22.060 --> 01:02:24.060 and the supplies of 01:02:24.060 --> 01:02:26.060 these plants were diminished 01:02:26.060 --> 01:02:28.060 and new religious forms arose 01:02:28.060 --> 01:02:30.060 and the time between 01:02:30.060 --> 01:02:32.060 the great festivals grew 01:02:32.060 --> 01:02:34.060 longer and longer 01:02:34.060 --> 01:02:36.060 the ego 01:02:36.060 --> 01:02:38.060 begins to 01:02:38.060 --> 01:02:40.060 take hold, first as a 01:02:40.060 --> 01:02:42.060 kind of cancerous aberration 01:02:42.060 --> 01:02:44.060 but then quickly becoming a new 01:02:44.060 --> 01:02:46.060 style of behavior 01:02:46.060 --> 01:02:48.060 which quickly then 01:02:48.060 --> 01:02:50.060 eliminates all other styles 01:02:50.060 --> 01:02:52.060 of behavior by 01:02:52.060 --> 01:02:54.060 suppressing 01:02:54.060 --> 01:02:56.060 access to the chaos 01:02:56.060 --> 01:02:58.060 and this is the point I want to make 01:02:58.060 --> 01:03:00.060 that there is between 01:03:00.060 --> 01:03:02.060 the ego and 01:03:02.060 --> 01:03:04.060 full understanding 01:03:04.060 --> 01:03:06.060 of reality a barrier 01:03:06.060 --> 01:03:08.060 a problem 01:03:08.060 --> 01:03:10.060 the fear of the ego 01:03:10.060 --> 01:03:12.060 to surrender to 01:03:12.060 --> 01:03:14.060 the fact of chaos 01:03:14.060 --> 01:03:16.060 chaos 01:03:16.060 --> 01:03:18.060 is what we have lost 01:03:18.060 --> 01:03:20.060 touch with, this is why 01:03:20.060 --> 01:03:22.060 it has been given a bad name 01:03:22.060 --> 01:03:24.060 because it is feared 01:03:24.060 --> 01:03:26.060 by the dominant archetype 01:03:26.060 --> 01:03:28.060 of our world 01:03:28.060 --> 01:03:30.060 which is the ego 01:03:30.060 --> 01:03:32.060 which clenches 01:03:32.060 --> 01:03:34.060 because its existence 01:03:34.060 --> 01:03:36.060 is defined 01:03:36.060 --> 01:03:38.060 in terms of 01:03:38.060 --> 01:03:40.060 control 01:03:40.060 --> 01:03:42.060 and the furious 01:03:42.060 --> 01:03:44.060 modeling process 01:03:44.060 --> 01:03:46.060 and this will now sound like a knock on modeling 01:03:46.060 --> 01:03:48.060 the furious modeling process 01:03:48.060 --> 01:03:50.060 that the ego endlessly 01:03:50.060 --> 01:03:52.060 carries out is an effort 01:03:52.060 --> 01:03:54.060 to fight 01:03:54.060 --> 01:03:56.060 the absence of closure 01:03:56.060 --> 01:03:58.060 the ego wants closure 01:03:58.060 --> 01:04:00.060 it wants a complete explanation 01:04:00.060 --> 01:04:02.060 the beginning of wisdom 01:04:02.060 --> 01:04:04.060 I believe 01:04:04.060 --> 01:04:06.060 is the ability to accept 01:04:06.060 --> 01:04:08.060 an inherent messiness 01:04:08.060 --> 01:04:10.060 in 01:04:10.060 --> 01:04:12.060 your explanation of what's 01:04:12.060 --> 01:04:14.060 going on because nowhere 01:04:14.060 --> 01:04:16.060 is it writ that human 01:04:16.060 --> 01:04:18.060 minds should be able to 01:04:18.060 --> 01:04:20.060 give a full accounting of 01:04:20.060 --> 01:04:22.060 creation in all dimensions 01:04:22.060 --> 01:04:24.060 and on all levels 01:04:24.060 --> 01:04:26.060 and I think that 01:04:26.060 --> 01:04:28.060 Wittgenstein had this idea 01:04:28.060 --> 01:04:30.060 that philosophy should be 01:04:30.060 --> 01:04:32.060 what he called 01:04:32.060 --> 01:04:34.060 true enough 01:04:34.060 --> 01:04:36.060 and I think that's a great idea 01:04:36.060 --> 01:04:38.060 let's just make it true enough 01:04:38.060 --> 01:04:40.060 because that's as true as it can 01:04:40.060 --> 01:04:42.060 be gotten 01:04:42.060 --> 01:04:44.060 well so 01:04:44.060 --> 01:04:46.060 the imagination 01:04:46.060 --> 01:04:48.060 is chaos 01:04:48.060 --> 01:04:50.060 new forms 01:04:50.060 --> 01:04:52.060 are fetched out of this chaos 01:04:52.060 --> 01:04:54.060 for me the creative act 01:04:54.060 --> 01:04:56.060 is the letting down 01:04:56.060 --> 01:04:58.060 of the net 01:04:58.060 --> 01:05:00.060 of human imagination 01:05:00.060 --> 01:05:02.060 into the ocean of chaos 01:05:02.060 --> 01:05:04.060 on which we are suspended 01:05:04.060 --> 01:05:06.060 and the attempt 01:05:06.060 --> 01:05:08.060 to bring out of it 01:05:08.060 --> 01:05:10.060 ideas 01:05:10.060 --> 01:05:12.060 to bring out of it 01:05:12.060 --> 01:05:14.060 you know sometimes 01:05:14.060 --> 01:05:16.060 and this is my model for 01:05:16.060 --> 01:05:18.060 the psychedelic experience 01:05:18.060 --> 01:05:20.060 that it is the night sea journey 01:05:20.060 --> 01:05:22.060 that it is the lone fisherman 01:05:22.060 --> 01:05:24.060 on a tropical sea 01:05:24.060 --> 01:05:26.060 in which there are nets 01:05:26.060 --> 01:05:28.060 and you let these nets down 01:05:28.060 --> 01:05:30.060 and sometimes 01:05:30.060 --> 01:05:32.060 something tears through them 01:05:32.060 --> 01:05:34.060 that leaves them in shreds 01:05:34.060 --> 01:05:36.060 and you just row for shore 01:05:36.060 --> 01:05:38.060 and put your head under your bed 01:05:38.060 --> 01:05:40.060 and pray 01:05:40.060 --> 01:05:42.060 and at other times 01:05:42.060 --> 01:05:44.060 what slips through are the minutia 01:05:44.060 --> 01:05:46.060 the minnows of this 01:05:46.060 --> 01:05:48.060 ichthyological metaphor 01:05:48.060 --> 01:05:50.060 of idea chasing 01:05:50.060 --> 01:05:52.060 but sometimes 01:05:52.060 --> 01:05:54.060 you know 01:05:54.060 --> 01:05:56.060 it becomes something 01:05:56.060 --> 01:05:58.060 that is food 01:05:58.060 --> 01:06:00.060 that is food 01:06:00.060 --> 01:06:02.060 for the human community 01:06:02.060 --> 01:06:04.060 that we can sustain ourselves on 01:06:04.060 --> 01:06:06.060 and go forward 01:06:06.060 --> 01:06:08.060 so we haven't talked that much 01:06:08.060 --> 01:06:10.060 about art 01:06:10.060 --> 01:06:12.060 and aesthetics 01:06:12.060 --> 01:06:14.060 but I think in the human world 01:06:14.060 --> 01:06:16.060 the 01:06:16.060 --> 01:06:18.060 the appetition 01:06:18.060 --> 01:06:20.060 is for beauty 01:06:20.060 --> 01:06:22.060 to my mind 01:06:22.060 --> 01:06:24.060 and this is another place 01:06:24.060 --> 01:06:26.060 that we have to go 01:06:26.060 --> 01:06:28.060 immediately through 01:06:28.060 --> 01:06:30.060 because Plato held 01:06:30.060 --> 01:06:32.060 that the good was the true 01:06:32.060 --> 01:06:34.060 and that both were the beautiful 01:06:34.060 --> 01:06:36.060 and this is a very quaint 01:06:36.060 --> 01:06:38.060 idea from the point of view 01:06:38.060 --> 01:06:40.060 of modern philosophy 01:06:40.060 --> 01:06:42.060 but I think 01:06:42.060 --> 01:06:44.060 it's in the bones 01:06:44.060 --> 01:06:46.060 when you actually connect yourself 01:06:46.060 --> 01:06:48.060 up to the planet 01:06:48.060 --> 01:06:50.060 that's why chaos 01:06:50.060 --> 01:06:52.060 is capable of being 01:06:52.060 --> 01:06:54.060 the tremendous repository 01:06:54.060 --> 01:06:56.060 of ordered beauty 01:06:56.060 --> 01:06:58.060 that it is 01:06:58.060 --> 01:07:00.060 because there is no chaos 01:07:00.060 --> 01:07:02.060 in the old definition 01:07:02.060 --> 01:07:04.060 that 01:07:04.060 --> 01:07:06.060 which is to say 01:07:06.060 --> 01:07:08.060 that which by any definition 01:07:08.060 --> 01:07:10.060 or any test 01:07:10.060 --> 01:07:12.060 is found to be disordered 01:07:12.060 --> 01:07:14.060 that is just a kind of 01:07:14.060 --> 01:07:16.060 a hell notion 01:07:16.060 --> 01:07:18.060 a kind of 01:07:18.060 --> 01:07:20.060 hypostatization 01:07:20.060 --> 01:07:22.060 of an ultimate state of disorder 01:07:22.060 --> 01:07:24.060 but nowhere 01:07:24.060 --> 01:07:26.060 in the world 01:07:26.060 --> 01:07:28.060 that is deployed 01:07:28.060 --> 01:07:30.060 through space and time 01:07:30.060 --> 01:07:32.060 do you encounter that 01:07:32.060 --> 01:07:34.060 instead what you encounter 01:07:34.060 --> 01:07:36.060 is embedded order 01:07:36.060 --> 01:07:38.060 upon embedded order 01:07:38.060 --> 01:07:40.060 this fractal thing 01:07:40.060 --> 01:07:42.060 and then finally 01:07:42.060 --> 01:07:44.060 for me the imagination 01:07:44.060 --> 01:07:46.060 is the goal 01:07:46.060 --> 01:07:48.060 of history 01:07:48.060 --> 01:07:50.060 I see culture 01:07:50.060 --> 01:07:52.060 as an effort 01:07:52.060 --> 01:07:54.060 to literally realize 01:07:54.060 --> 01:07:56.060 collective dreams 01:07:56.060 --> 01:07:58.060 and you know it's on a very crude level 01:07:58.060 --> 01:08:00.060 when it's you make your mask 01:08:00.060 --> 01:08:02.060 and I make my mask 01:08:02.060 --> 01:08:04.060 and then we dance around together 01:08:04.060 --> 01:08:06.060 and it's even at a very crude level 01:08:06.060 --> 01:08:08.060 when it's you design 01:08:08.060 --> 01:08:10.060 your shopping mall 01:08:10.060 --> 01:08:12.060 and I'll design my world trade center 01:08:12.060 --> 01:08:14.060 and we'll put them on the same piece 01:08:14.060 --> 01:08:16.060 of real estate 01:08:16.060 --> 01:08:18.060 but we're coming now into 01:08:18.060 --> 01:08:20.060 through media I believe 01:08:20.060 --> 01:08:22.060 through virtual reality 01:08:22.060 --> 01:08:24.060 and human machine integration 01:08:24.060 --> 01:08:26.060 into a situation 01:08:26.060 --> 01:08:28.060 where the imagination 01:08:28.060 --> 01:08:30.060 is going to be something 01:08:30.060 --> 01:08:32.060 that we can share 01:08:32.060 --> 01:08:34.060 that the path of mind 01:08:34.060 --> 01:08:36.060 through its own meanderings 01:08:36.060 --> 01:08:38.060 will become something 01:08:38.060 --> 01:08:40.060 that can be recorded 01:08:40.060 --> 01:08:42.060 and played back 01:08:42.060 --> 01:08:44.060 we will have the possibility 01:08:44.060 --> 01:08:46.060 of living in our own past 01:08:46.060 --> 01:08:48.060 or creating and trading 01:08:48.060 --> 01:08:50.060 realities as art 01:08:50.060 --> 01:08:52.060 and art 01:08:52.060 --> 01:08:54.060 as life 01:08:54.060 --> 01:08:56.060 life lived in the imagination 01:08:56.060 --> 01:08:58.060 is the great archetype 01:08:58.060 --> 01:09:00.060 which rears itself up 01:09:00.060 --> 01:09:02.060 at the end of history 01:09:02.060 --> 01:09:04.060 life in the imagination 01:09:04.060 --> 01:09:06.060 the imagination is 01:09:06.060 --> 01:09:08.060 this auric field 01:09:08.060 --> 01:09:10.060 which surrounds 01:09:10.060 --> 01:09:12.060 the transcendental object 01:09:12.060 --> 01:09:14.060 at greater and greater depth 01:09:14.060 --> 01:09:16.060 as you approach 01:09:16.060 --> 01:09:18.060 the transcendental object 01:09:18.060 --> 01:09:20.060 and as we now close distance 01:09:20.060 --> 01:09:22.060 with it 01:09:22.060 --> 01:09:24.060 all of 01:09:24.060 --> 01:09:26.060 our cultural expression 01:09:26.060 --> 01:09:28.060 all of our self awareness 01:09:28.060 --> 01:09:30.060 is taking on 01:09:30.060 --> 01:09:32.060 this curiously designed 01:09:32.060 --> 01:09:34.060 quality 01:09:34.060 --> 01:09:36.060 I mean you must have noticed this 01:09:36.060 --> 01:09:38.060 that the world is 01:09:38.060 --> 01:09:40.060 very heavily designed 01:09:40.060 --> 01:09:42.060 in a way that it never was before 01:09:42.060 --> 01:09:44.060 morphogenetic fields 01:09:44.060 --> 01:09:46.060 of great size 01:09:46.060 --> 01:09:48.060 and scope 01:09:48.060 --> 01:09:50.060 which our international schools 01:09:50.060 --> 01:09:52.060 of architecture and design 01:09:52.060 --> 01:09:54.060 touch whole continents 01:09:54.060 --> 01:09:56.060 certain ambiances 01:09:56.060 --> 01:09:58.060 this is the summoning 01:09:58.060 --> 01:10:00.060 of the imagination 01:10:00.060 --> 01:10:02.060 into the human scale 01:10:02.060 --> 01:10:04.060 it's like a god 01:10:04.060 --> 01:10:06.060 that we wish to call down 01:10:06.060 --> 01:10:08.060 and draw to earth 01:10:08.060 --> 01:10:10.060 I mean this is why William Blake 01:10:10.060 --> 01:10:12.060 called it the divine imagination 01:10:12.060 --> 01:10:14.060 because it is 01:10:14.060 --> 01:10:16.060 the four gated city 01:10:16.060 --> 01:10:18.060 it is the flying saucer 01:10:18.060 --> 01:10:20.060 we are on a journey 01:10:20.060 --> 01:10:22.060 to meet 01:10:22.060 --> 01:10:24.060 this great attractor 01:10:24.060 --> 01:10:26.060 and as we close distance with it 01:10:26.060 --> 01:10:28.060 it is more and more 01:10:28.060 --> 01:10:30.060 a multifaceted mirror 01:10:30.060 --> 01:10:32.060 of our images 01:10:32.060 --> 01:10:34.060 of beauty 01:10:34.060 --> 01:10:36.060 so it's like an ascending learning curve 01:10:36.060 --> 01:10:38.060 that becomes so asymptotic 01:10:38.060 --> 01:10:40.060 and at that point 01:10:40.060 --> 01:10:42.060 you're face to face 01:10:42.060 --> 01:10:44.060 with 01:10:44.060 --> 01:10:46.060 a mystery 01:10:46.060 --> 01:10:48.060 a living mystery 01:10:48.060 --> 01:10:50.060 that is within each and all of us 01:10:50.060 --> 01:10:52.060 it's the imagination 01:10:52.060 --> 01:10:54.060 that argues 01:10:54.060 --> 01:10:56.060 the divine spark 01:10:56.060 --> 01:10:58.060 in human beings 01:10:58.060 --> 01:11:00.060 it's absolutely confounding 01:11:00.060 --> 01:11:02.060 if you try to get biology 01:11:02.060 --> 01:11:04.060 to produce it for you 01:11:04.060 --> 01:11:06.060 as a necessary quantity 01:11:06.060 --> 01:11:08.060 it isn't that 01:11:08.060 --> 01:11:10.060 it's an emanation from above 01:11:10.060 --> 01:11:12.060 it is literally 01:11:12.060 --> 01:11:14.060 a descent of the world soul 01:11:14.060 --> 01:11:16.060 into all of us 01:11:16.060 --> 01:11:18.060 we then become 01:11:18.060 --> 01:11:20.060 the atoms 01:11:20.060 --> 01:11:22.060 of the world soul 01:11:22.060 --> 01:11:24.060 and our channel to it 01:11:24.060 --> 01:11:26.060 is by closing our eyes 01:11:26.060 --> 01:11:28.060 and obliterating our 01:11:28.060 --> 01:11:30.060 immediate personalized space time 01:11:30.060 --> 01:11:32.060 locus and falling 01:11:32.060 --> 01:11:34.060 into the imagination 01:11:34.060 --> 01:11:36.060 which is running 01:11:36.060 --> 01:11:38.060 like a river 01:11:38.060 --> 01:11:40.060 through all of us 01:11:40.060 --> 01:11:42.060 endlessly driven by 01:11:42.060 --> 01:11:44.060 the 01:11:44.060 --> 01:11:46.060 hydraulic 01:11:46.060 --> 01:11:48.060 momentum 01:11:48.060 --> 01:11:50.060 of the cataracts of chaos 01:11:50.060 --> 01:11:52.060 which 01:11:52.060 --> 01:11:54.060 usher into the creativity 01:11:54.060 --> 01:11:56.060 of the imagination 01:11:56.060 --> 01:11:58.060 I mean these river metaphors 01:11:58.060 --> 01:12:00.060 are just endlessly applicable 01:12:00.060 --> 01:12:02.060 to this 01:12:02.060 --> 01:12:04.060 the flowing of forces over landscapes 01:12:04.060 --> 01:12:06.060 the pressure of chaos 01:12:06.060 --> 01:12:08.060 on the imagination to create 01:12:08.060 --> 01:12:10.060 creativity 01:12:10.060 --> 01:12:12.060 and it's looping back 01:12:12.060 --> 01:12:14.060 into the same 01:12:14.060 --> 01:12:16.060 these 01:12:16.060 --> 01:12:18.060 these things are 01:12:18.060 --> 01:12:20.060 the icons for the world 01:12:20.060 --> 01:12:22.060 that wants to be 01:12:22.060 --> 01:12:24.060 but the key is surrender 01:12:24.060 --> 01:12:26.060 and dissolution 01:12:26.060 --> 01:12:28.060 of boundaries 01:12:28.060 --> 01:12:30.060 dissolution of the ego 01:12:30.060 --> 01:12:32.060 and a trust 01:12:32.060 --> 01:12:34.060 in the love 01:12:34.060 --> 01:12:36.060 of the goddess 01:12:36.060 --> 01:12:38.060 which transcends rational understanding 01:12:38.060 --> 01:12:40.060 there will come a moment 01:12:40.060 --> 01:12:42.060 which will be an absolute leap 01:12:42.060 --> 01:12:44.060 into space 01:12:44.060 --> 01:12:46.060 and we will simply have to have the faith 01:12:46.060 --> 01:12:48.060 that there is something waiting there 01:12:48.060 --> 01:12:50.060 because the dominator style 01:12:50.060 --> 01:12:52.060 has left us no 01:12:52.060 --> 01:12:54.060 choice