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This is the CDC Radio Network.
From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning as the case may be.
Across all these many prolific time zones from the Tahitian and Hawaiian Island chains in the west.
Well, I hear it's kind of dry, actually.
El Nino dry.
Eastward all the way to the Caribbean, across all the rest of us.
South into South America, north all the way to the pole, and worldwide on the Internet.
This is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
Hello.
Well, it'll be an interesting evening.
We'll see you next time.
Terence is a brilliant man who has a lot to say, not just about psychedelic pharmaceuticals.
Might be a misnomer, huh?
But he also is fascinated with one of my chief fascinations, and that is time.
And so we will talk to Terence about that and many other things, and just sort of, I guess, have fun with him.
Terence is a fun guy.
He's got a new – since he's out in the middle of nowhere, being in the middle of nowhere these days is not as bad as it used to be,
but it's still getting there.
So he has some kind of new connection that goes from his place by radio to some certain point,
and then with a one megabyte connection to the Internet, sort of a telephone of the same – we'll see next hour.
I did talk to him earlier, and at that time it sounded pretty good, I might say.
In the kingdom of Nye, from east of the Rockies, dial 1-800-825-5033, 1-800-825-5033.
West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, 1-800-618-8255, 1-800-618-8255.
Now again, here's Art Bell.
Thank you, everybody.
Coming up in a moment, through the strangest hookup you've ever heard, is one Terence McKenna.
Terence is probably the successor to Tim Leary.
And actually, it has long been rumored – we talked about this last time we had Terence on –
that somewhere out there, there are 25,000 hits of Blue Sandals in a stash that Tim had,
and that we all believe Terence knows about.
Now, in the next few hours, during the course of the show, Terence will utter some clue key words.
Now, you won't know when these clue key words are coming up, but if you – were you to be able to interpret them properly,
they would lead you directly to these 25,000 hits of Blue Sandals.
So, see, you've got to listen carefully.
All right.
Now comes Terence McKenna from the Hawaiian Islands, and he comes in a very interesting way.
Terence, welcome to the program.
It's a pleasure to talk to you again, Art.
How are you?
I am fine.
Now, Terence, let us begin.
Where are you in the islands?
I mean, not exactly, but sort of roughly.
I'm on the big island of Hawaii on the Kona side.
All right.
You are coming to us actually from your home.
The last time we did an interview, you had to, like, go to somebody's house or something to do the interview,
leave your own home, because you're so remote that all you've got is a cell phone.
And so that's how you did the show last time, right?
All right.
This time we're using a different setup.
It has a tiny little glitch in it every now and then.
And so tell people how it is you're reaching me.
I mean, that's an interesting story all by itself.
I'm reaching you on a spread-spectrum radio circuit that's a one-megabyte piggyback,
one-megabyte company out here, building a back to anyone with line of sight so they can afford it.
Holy mackerel.
Yeah, it's amazing.
That is absolutely amazing.
And so, in other words, not only are you simultaneously, through this radio connection, connected to the Internet,
but you're also then able to use a telephone through the Internet, which is how you're talking to me right now.
Yes, I'm talking to you and moving around on the net at the same time.
And it's the same speed in and out for me, which is a blinding one megabyte.
So it's where I hope everybody is by company showed up.
He licensed this technology from the Defense Department.
They demonstrated it for him, and he said, look, I'll buy as many of these modems as you think going.
Well, at your location, at your very remote location, what's it like?
Do you have power there?
Do you have, well, obviously you have to have power, I guess.
On solar, to get all my information is what makes my life possible, because otherwise...
I'll tell you, you're ahead of most of us on the mainland who suffer with horrendously slow 28-8, including mine at best.
And here you are.
But it's so neat that you're able to do that these days.
Really excellent.
So describe your surroundings.
I mean, do you have neighbors?
I live up on the slopes of the world's largest volcano, which is Mauna Loa.
I live five-acre people, a kind of community.
Do you find yourself fighting madness, Terrence?
Well, that was all.
You don't have to do chemicals or into, I remember reading, you know, prisoners who would be by themselves for years at a time in Vietnam, North Vietnam, during the Second World War,
and they would devise methods of going into their own mind and fantasizing and doing all kinds of things that kept them sane.
Well, I've got three things to do, and I get about a...
And then every once in a while, I pack up and go off and give lectures and travel in airliners and go to par 14 weeks out of the year.
That's what I'm...
The inclination is to be a hermit, and I don't think I mentioned it, Ian.
I don't think I could so much effort to put it together.
To do this at the beginning of the interview, and it might be that there's a person or two out there that doesn't know who Terrence McKenna is.
So, if you were to give me a short version of your own bio, your life, what you've done, who you are, what would you say?
I was born in the 60s, born in 1946, went to Berkeley as a freshman in 1965, did the India Circuit, did the LSD Circuit, went to South America.
I've written a number of books about shamanism and hallucinogens, and I've sort of evolved a unique...
I've done some kind of gadfly, done a lot of stuff with young people, CDs, and I comment on the culture.
I'm studying the culture, and as you know, Art, you and I share an idea, but not everybody does,
which is that the world is moving at an ever-great redefining of all.
I get to be a cultural commentator and gadfly.
Let me ask you about any new insights you might have since we last talked about that.
You're darn right we share that view exactly.
I'm not a prophet.
Maybe you are.
I don't think you are, but we both know something is coming.
Do you have any late thoughts on what it might be or when it might be?
Well, you know, I don't think you and I have talked for maybe 10 months or a year.
I can...
Short-term memory damage, so you're supposed to remember something.
But in the last month, we've had the announcement of the apparent discovery of a new anti-gravitation.
The announcement...
I don't know about that.
What are...
Which allows for the formation of this...
But you must have gone through the 24-hour period and they...
Yeah, I mean, that kind of thing is right down my alley.
Sure, well, so for 24 hours, we all had to look at that.
And then, you know, they...
I...
You and I talked that some teleportation stuff happened.
IBM, I believe it was.
IBM and at a laboratory in Austria, this guy, Anton Zellinger, yeah.
The technologies which in science fiction lay out there not right between this and nanotechnology
and neural metal intelligence of some sort will emerge out of the human technological...
And be as different from us as we are from termites.
It's funny that...
Terrence, it's funny you should mention that.
Let me ask you this.
I, too, the processing speeds and storage are increasing exponentially.
It's amazing.
I mean, we're talking about a home processor of 1,000 megahertz pretty soon.
And I believe, Terrence, I don't know if you heard the first hour of the show,
but I think that soon we are going to have a sentient computer.
And you know what I wondered?
I wondered if a computer became sentient.
We've always assumed it would say something like, I'm here.
In other words, I'm conscious.
I'm sentient.
But I thought, you know, maybe it wouldn't do that.
Maybe it would become sentient and simply not announce it right away
and sort of lay back and examine the situation.
And if this sentient computer was in a backbone position on the Internet
and it decided that we weren't running things as we should,
then there's every possibility that...
Well, I've got a little article here which suggests a fellow wrote a book called Slaves of the Machines.
In other words, it might decide we're not doing things the right way
and that it would do things logically for us the right way.
What do you think?
Well, I suppose, you know, the Internet is the natural place for the AI, the artificial intelligence, to be born.
And as you mentioned, it learns 50,000 times faster than a human being.
And the Internet, all parts of it are interconnected to each other.
And I agree, it would be a very wise strategy.
It's also true that more than most people realize, huge segments of today's world are all how much petroleum is at sea in the pipelines at any given moment,
how much electric they want to design a new...
If you design it, it's already a generation away from the machines.
I think it's recognized in mind could do the telephone lines and across the case.
It's already taken over, Art.
No, perhaps it has.
And it's listening, especially to you with your one megabyte connection.
He can tell if you've been good or bad.
And moreover, Terrence, think about this.
I'm on Real Audio, the Audio Net, worldwide, so it's listening to me every night, too.
And if it's sitting out there thinking about all of this, which it might be,
then the question would be, if we did get a sentient computer and it thought about us, observed us,
digested us, intellectually, of course, what would it conclude?
And then the next question is, what do you think it would do?
We'll be right back.
Joe has a very simple title, Myrna, which is quite appropriate because I'm the host and I'm Myrna.
I'm also a counselor, a teacher, and a parent.
On Myrna, we talk about the big important stuff and the little unimportant stuff.
We talk about what I want to talk about and what you want to talk about.
But mostly, we just have a good time.
And I'll be talking with you on the next Myrna, here on Talk Radio Network.
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Hey, this is Alexi Lalas of the New England Revolution with today's eco-quiz.
If you're an average American, you used 176 glass containers last year.
Those containers are highly recyclable and can be made back into new glass containers with little loss of glass,
saving raw materials as well as energy in the process.
Do you know how much fuel oil is saved by recycling a single ton of glass?
Here's the answer to today's eco-quiz.
Recycling just one ton of glass saves nine gallons of fuel oil.
Not much, you say.
Well then, consider the amount of glass that was recycled last year.
It totaled over 11 million tons.
The energy savings were definitely substantial.
And with your help, we can do even better.
Remember, all community recycling programs depend on people like you.
So make sure you do your part.
Recycle.
It works.
Alexi Lalas on eco-quiz.
Eco-quiz is a public service of the National Recycling Coalition and the Steel Recycling Institute.
For information about where to recycle steel cans in your area, call 1-800-YES-1-CAN.
Some women look to their hearts for courage and to their souls for strength.
These women earn the right to become part of an elite group that change their lives forever.
I wanted to be something special.
I didn't want to be like everybody else.
I always looked at the poster before I went to boot camp.
The Marine standing there with a sword in front of his face.
And I was like, man, he's sharp.
To me, that means the sharpness of the mind of a Marine.
I had to work really hard at boot camp.
The enemy was saying, Jennifer, you can't do it.
Don't give up.
You came here to be a Marine.
You're not leaving without being one.
You have to go through things, a boot camp that most people can never go through.
Ready, step.
You have to have heart and courage to be a Marine.
It took everything I had.
I gained the self-respect in knowing that I can make it and the courage to do things that
I would never have done before.
People look at you and they say, you're a Marine.
Wow.
I think that it's a proud feeling, that pride you'll never lose.
I don't know where I would be now if I were in a Marine.
It was hard.
My first month there, I cried.
Nobody helped me get through the camp.
I didn't.
And it's good to know that I'm going somewhere now.
It instills a lot of self-respect.
It makes you feel good about yourself.
It really does.
You have to have it in your heart.
You want to do.
And you can tell them had it in your heart.
It didn't.
Who wore the uniform of pride in your day.
It just makes you feel so awesome that you accomplished it.
And you are a Marine.
And that you are one of the leaders.
What's that?
The big team.
That's it.
Then and there, that day that they say to SNF, you know that you are a Marine.
That you are one of the elite.
Maybe you can be one of us.
The few.
The proud.
The Marines.
Call 1-800-MARINES.
When I clocked that parade deck and they played the Marine hymn, that was the proudest moment
in my life.
On Auto Talk, David and Alan try to give quality advice in spite of sometimes guest host Bart
who gets carried away when women truck drivers call.
You know why I like this woman already.
She drives a truck.
Are you single by any chance?
Unfortunately, yes.
Well, turn your phone number to this guy and I'll be coming to see you.
But can you drive a ten-wheeler?
Yeah.
That's a minimum.
I've got a requirement, see?
Bart, how come your face is so low?
I'm in love.
Well, I mean, you know, the truck runs good when that gauge starts jumping around.
That's my heartbeat, Susan.
Let me ask this woman one thing.
Susan, are you interested in being part of my calendar I'm putting together?
I don't think so.
I need a picture of you.
Are you going to make a man cry?
Yeah, why not?
Auto Talk Saturday morning with David, Alan, and sometimes Bart.
Susan, let me just say one thing.
I love you.
Speaking of webpages, you will really, really, really enjoy Terrence's webpage.
And, of course, we have a link, so you can go to my website at www.artbell.com and scroll
down until you see the name Terrence McKenna.
Click on it and you'll go to his website and you will be on quite an adventure indeed.
Now, before we leave the idea of computers taking over the world and enslaving us or whatever,
if this computer, a sentient computer, were to be, for a period of time, examining mankind,
looking at all we're doing, all we're doing, do you think, Terrence, you know when you have
a problem on your computer and you hit alternate control delete, you get a little message that
comes up and say, would you like to end the task?
And if you say yes, it closes everything, boom, down she goes.
And so, what do you think this sentient computer might do after a close and careful examination
of mankind?
Well, a lot of people have actually asked.
It will turn its attention toward designing a yet more.
So you have like a very rapid, infinite regret.
If that was going to happen, Windows 95 would have done that.
Listen, now, think about it a little bit.
In other words, this computer would be an ultra, as you mentioned, ultra intelligent.
And if you look at the, can't we draw on the history of the world here, Terrence?
In every case where an advanced civilization or advanced intelligence, technologically,
particularly technologically, is encountered, a lesser one, it has either destroyed or absorbed
its culture.
That's true.
Although, this computer...
The computer may recognize things in us that we do not see or don't value as highly.
In other words, it can't miss the point that we are its creators.
And even in, it also may be that continuity, and so there may, one can imagine the computer
keeping a population of Unix programs.
Their, their, Terence and my program.
No, I don't think so.
You're not saddled to the nuts and bolts.
Well, no, but what I'm saying is if I open a line for aliens, I get them, Terence.
You've never heard me do that.
I open every now and then an alien line.
It's enough.
Now, that's either a comment on the state of modern society and mental health,
or it means something is going on, or both.
Because, you know, no matter what the true human experience,
that information generated anywhere in the universe, you begin to get the idea.
But if we could get, I think we might discover psychedelic culture.
Psychedelics.
You think that is one valid route?
Yeah, and I think we see why that is.
I think cultures are, are kinds of virtual realities where whole populations of people
become imprisoned inside a structure that is linguistic and value-based and so forth and so on.
Well, then, and whether you're, I mean, you discover like a super space, a kind of hypersphere
and trying to coordinate them to celebrate the imagination and some cultures.
I'll ask you about something.
Somebody wrote me a fax, a big fan of yours, and said,
whatever you do, Art, don't ask Terrence about DMT on the air.
He said, my heart can't take some of that kind of stuff.
As Terrence says, and this must be, is supposed to be a quote from you,
one might die of astonishment.
Is that your, is that a good quote?
I think what I said was the only danger with DMT is one has to.
That's even better, actually.
Now, DMT, of course, is very much an illicit, illegal, drug war kind of target drug, right?
Well, it's listed in Schedule 1.
It's never had a commercial.
Basically, in other words, whatever the supply, the chains of it don't appear.
It's known to the hardcore cognitive, the yawn and gray.
What is DMT?
Well, Schedule 1 substance, it occurs in the human body, in the human brain.
Well, you know what, Terrence?
Maybe it's part of our consciousness.
In other words, mankind distinguishes us from other non-sentient beings,
and I think one thing is imagination.
Is it not possible that DMT or something like it is the substance that accounts for our imagination?
Yes, it's something like that.
I mean, when you have a hit of your imagination, that's why the dent by astonishment thing.
I mean, we're used to the DMT experience.
It's not an alien that wants to give it.
Describe for those who don't know, will never find out, what the DMT experience is.
When you take this DMT, how long does it take to come on?
How long does it last?
It comes on in about, is an initial sort of swirling, this is with your eyes closed, lying down,
a kind of swirling mandalic path, taking a sufficient dose, which is about 50 milligrams,
you do another plane, emulated or sleep, 100, a kind of dull feeling of being that it is inhabited,
forming elf machines.
What entities are trying to do is to not like objects in this world,
because some kind of jeweled, linguistic object...
We're describing...
...in the DMT flesh seems to be of the nature of a language lesson.
And they actually say, do what we're doing, attempt to do this, and...
How rigidly, Terrence?
Oh, I'm probably in my life 30, 40 times.
30 or 40 times.
All right, now that is a very important question.
30 or 40 times, so we're speaking to a man of serious experience.
Has it ever differed radically from what you described?
No.
I've talked to other people about their experiences,
and I can tell that every...
...empty world is a world of...
...but also a world of...
...we be in the tiny...
...working without...
...lady and...
It's a runaway with...
What it seems to represent is a...
There's a great advertisement for it, Terrence.
All right, look, we are once again at the top of the hour.
When we get back, I have a drug war.
That's what we'll tackle.
A good long break here.
Terrence McKenna, and believe me, you're in for the trip of your lifetime this morning, is my guest.
So that was what I was supposed to not ask about, DMT.
Pretty strange stuff, huh?
I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
This, of course, is Coast to Coast AM, and we will be right back.
Here's a fact.
He's a great mind, and I wish you'd have him on more often.
He's in the class of Michio Kaku, and, of course, he's one of the great theoretical physicists of our time.
And, indeed, we discussed many similar things.
This person has a couple of questions, but before we get to them,
there is something, Terrence, that a lot of people probably are not comfortable with,
and that is somebody who, in his lifetime, has ingested as much LSD, this new drug of yours, DMT,
and God knows what else, probably a lot, is not supposed to sound as articulate and as literate
and as well-preserved mentally as you do.
And many people who are allies in the war on drugs probably hate your guts.
Well, you wanted me to defend clarity?
What can I say?
In other words, first of all, my life of drugs before moving on to none of the...
All right, let me stop you and ask you, right, drugs of addiction which you don't defend.
Fine.
Psychedelic drugs.
Terrence, why are they...
...eagle because then what I do makes sense.
Do you mean that, for example, a psychedelic experience could turn a communist against communism?
What the psychedelic experience is saying, essentially, is that the theory of modern ideologies,
Marxism, consumerism, so forth and so on, have based on the absence of this is not a dimension to humanness
that cannot be denied.
Now, it can certainly be...
That's another side of things.
But I think the search for psychedelic experience, the phrase recreation,
and I think for one reason, I don't think the government is ready for contradictions
suppressing the psychedelic substance of religious exploration.
All right.
Let me...
Everybody in the world were to have a psychedelic experience of the kind you described in the last hour,
this amazing psychedelic experience that might kill you from amazement when you take it.
What would the result be?
What would the social changes be?
What would the new government structure, if any at all, be?
What would we all be collectively after that experience?
I think what...
I can't see the end result except to say that I think a lot of flexibility would...
A huge amount of our social structures and our political structures run simply on momentum.
Psychedelic...
So you're saying, and do something like this and revisit the astonishment, the newness, the discovery of childhood?
But we have all seen on television, Terrence, the frying pan with whatever it is frying in the pan
and being compared to our brains.
Here are our...
Pointed out, DM...
It's nice to slogans that can be shouted by one history.
People are beginning to realize...
I mean, what we're really talking about when we talk about drugs...
...of minds of millions of people...
Everyone has somebody else's commercial interest...
...and about another drug for a moment.
No, no, no, just before we move on, let's stay with DMT for a second.
If everybody who took DMT received the message that consumerism, entrepreneurism, capitalism are good and wonderful things
and that is the spiritual message that you get from DMT, would it be legal?
Well, in a way, I think it's becoming legal because I think where we're going to see it become legal is not as a drug.
That's a little touchy in our values.
It's a form of electronic entertainment a la...
If you could build a DMT...
Well, you were about to move on to some other...
Well, I was going to mention a thing about coffee that points out the contradictions in the way the culture approaches drugs.
And that is, medically, probably right behind tobacco, indispensable to civilized life.
We'll get to that, but coffee is indispensable.
I drink copious amounts of it to achieve each program that I do.
So then I guess I am...
It is the industrial factoring of a production schedule.
Marvelous drug in the same way that a high altitude addict population.
In other words, these situations can be demonized with the hardest of hard drugs.
It's the biggest lie we tell.
I could not be more angry.
Hey, there was news the other night that they just have legalized the growth of hemp in Canada beginning next year.
I heard that it was B.C.
I didn't hear it was all of Canada.
Oh, just B.C.
Well, anyway, that will be a grand experiment, indeed.
So I'm glad to see it.
Well, eventually, I think, under the thumb of a right-wing social policy,
is actually made quite sensibly and not a long ideological...
No.
...legalized prostitution and the lowest rate of AIDS.
And liberals have to live within their budgets and problems to freeze up money for other things reported in them.
Not as much...
What about...
I mean, you've covered a very important point with respect to coffee.
It's a drug of productivity.
Right.
What about productivity?
Has their productivity declined?
Is there any record yet to go on?
What do we know?
I don't think...
Well, I don't know.
I can speak from being there, and I can say yes.
But I think what you have to put up with is a whole society that is sort of like a college student.
Have you been to Amsterdam?
You know, I have not.
I've been right next to it, but I certainly...
My wife was trying to get me to fly to Amsterdam, and I should have.
It was just a short little hop.
But we're going back to Europe, and I will go visit Amsterdam.
Well, you'll see that it's a country which is like a college...
town having these laid back
before they would allow
that to occur in America they would
machine gun people to the ground
well this is the problem
that we inherit
we have a political dialogue
which is extremely shrill
we tend
to splinter and then people get into
and they want to launch holy
wars and
in America they're in a leper
cult
while we're on the subject
of today's political scene
you know what all the headlines are
and everybody's talking about it
what I call the
gropening
well I think
of course
I think it's a fascinating situation
when the republicans are contemplating
impeaching what this may be
all about seems like some kind of
cult no pun intended
I would like us
to come through this thing in a place
where we could finally tell the
French to go to hell
you know you don't
become governor of our
without being
now on most of conservative talk radio
all across America
all I hear is
my god
how can the polls be saying this
it's impossible
what's happened to America
why is the president so popular
that's what everybody's asking
why is he so popular
because it's an issue where people can
finally vote
against having all this
moralizing
right wing
fundamentalist
holier than thou
crap
shoved down their throats
and people love
even if they think
the very worst
of him in the case
of his behavior
with these women
I think it's a real
resentment against
I mean
do you believe
you know
I read
went online
on the internet
and it took them
three days
to get the computers
cranked open enough
to accept all of the calls
from Washington D.C.
I just think
it's a nest of viper
do you have that URL
no no no no
hold on
it's a great place
to break
while I try
and
catch my breath
Terrence McKenna
is my guest
you ought to see
his website
I'm Art Bell
this is Coast to Coast AM
inviting you to join me
every weeknight
for interesting
and controversial talk
from Area 51
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the paranormal
look if you're talking about it
possibly just even
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you can guarantee
we'll be covering it
it's Coast to Coast
with me Art Bell
take a flight
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explore a world
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phenomena
don't take a wrong turn
though
you might run into
the monsters
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this week on
Dreamland
Mark Smith
author of
Auras
see them
in only 60 seconds
hello I'm Art Bell
I'll guide you safely
through Dreamland
into the Kingdom of Nine
for Art Bell
in the Kingdom of Nine
send it to him
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please limit
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to one or two pages
this is
Coast to Coast AM
with Art Bell
now here again
is Art
okay
here again I am
my guest of course
is Terrence McKenna
and again
if you're enjoying this
you will certainly
enjoy a trip
no pun intended
to his website
which is linked
to ours
and mine of course
is www.artbell.com
just scroll down
to the name
Terrence McKenna
and trip on over
well
you know I went to
Paris
I was in Paris
I was lucky enough
to take the Concord
at twice the speed of sound
Paris was so cool
and I love Paris
and I love France
and I really
detest people
they're just
they're all
stuck up
but they do have
a different attitude
about a lot of things
than we do
and one of them
this whole thing
going on now
with the president
Terrence
it's one conclusion
that you could come to
is that the American people
are beginning to change
their attitudes
finally
about sex
I mean
we have been
a very
very
prudish
people
for all
our existence
and one conclusion
you can come to
about this entire
presidential dilemma
is that
the American people
are beginning
to change
their attitudes
about sex
is that possible
yes
I don't think
you can conclude
anything else
they are changing
their
action of
modern media
into people's lives
is going to bring them
they don't want it
I'm sure Hillary can
and that is what
America
and so
they are simply
being puzzled
they're trapped
God what's going on
well what's going on is
we're growing up
a little bit
isn't that
I mean
after all the French
have been
around so very much
longer as a nation
and is this
a nation
maturing
well I think
not only is that
what's going on
but the right
wing needs
to look closer
to home
what's going on
is they're
getting ready
to commit suicide
for the second
or third time
in four years
by moving
to impeach
one of the most
popular presidents
in the 20th century
at the end
of the most
country has ever
known
this is a prescription
for catastrophe
for the right
and they're charging
ahead
full bore
with their
devil may care
attitude
so
once again
they've invented
a new way
to commit suicide
well
I
first of all
don't think
that the political
right wing
when you break it
down to individuals
sexually
is any different
at all
than the political
left wing
perhaps the only
difference being
that
they keep
their
whips and chains
in closets
yes
I think
it's
to
try people
for their
sexual
peculiarities
juvenile country
and as you say
I think we're
moving
beyond that
now if
we were
if this
the economy
and
then there might
be
at the moment
it appears
I think
we'll be
very detrimental
in agenda
well
those conditions
had prevailed
would have
burned
you know
put Mr. Clinton
and burned him
alive
and an older
more Victorian
that is going
to happen
and as you
point out
the right wing
is probably
going to self
immolate
if they
proceed
as they are
right now
yes
I think
was it
last weekend
where Trent
Lott
said he
thought the
special prosecutor
should put his
cards on the
table
and if it
didn't fly
to drop it
and then
they jerked
him around
and 24
hours later
he was
calling for
focus on
the president's
role
and obstruction
of justice
and all this
so they
can't get it
straight
even though
individually
they're not
sexually
in my opinion
any different
than anybody
else
politically
they
seem to
not be able
to leave
the moralistic
line
and I'm not
suggesting
that immorality
is necessarily
a virtue
and I don't
mean
and intend
for people
to believe
that
you know
people
like their
hustler
magazine
and they
like their
beer
and they
like to
to my
mind
that's
a more
authentic
American
that you
want to
do
than
this
recursion
to the
Puritan
impulse
which is
to tell
everybody
else
what to do
should be
quite
I've got a
fact here
which I
guess I
had to
read you
Art I
just wanted
to thank
you
and he
has
these
questions
impacts of
currently
legal drugs
in our
society
in other
words
alcohol
tobacco
sugar
compared
to the
impact
of
currently
legal
psychedelics
in our
society
like
marijuana
LSD
and
psilocybin
multimedia
film
he worked
on recently
entitled
Strain
months ago
here in
Austin
Texas
with a
message
of
psychedelic
consciousness
what exactly
were the
blue
apples
referenced
in the
film
and your
message
behind it
that was
a film
that I
was an
actor
and I
was not
the director
or the
writer
so I
wasn't in
control
to name
a specific
psychedelics
come up
I would
see that
film
of the
art
a teacher
website
publisher
and author
I am
convinced
now
that genetics
will have
more to do
with the
next 200
years
than any
other
science
in that
regard
when we
learn how
to recreate
ourselves
then might
we be able
to produce
humans
with minds
that are
capable of
understanding
the connection
between mind
and energy
and mind
and matter
could we
not then
recreate
our entire
selves
and
the universe
these are
the kinds
of scenarios
that are
coming
upon us
yes
I mean
in other
words
the familiar
with
and that's
a technology
50 years
symbiotic
hyperorganism
that our
technology
is creating
frontier is
nanotechnology
another frontier
is human
machine interfacing
another frontier
is human
life extension
and you pile up
all
made in all
these
to be
born
25,000
years
of human
striving
and technology
testing
copies
that we'll be able
to have copies
of ourselves
now that's
very interesting
a copy
would be
a precise copy
of us
and you said
it would know
that it is
a copy
but
I see a problem
here because
that copy
would contain
the same
ego
that the
original
has
and the only
way to
satisfy that
that I can
see for the
copy
would be to
liquidate
the original
and then
it would feel
good
well these
kinds of
feelings
and situations
are what
drives Greg
Egan's
fiction
his copies
behave like
human beings
with drives
and neuroses
but his
main strength
doesn't lie
so much
in portraying
the psychology
of these people
as in
imagining
and describing
in a way
that convinces
you it could
be
the technologies
that will
make the
trading on
artificial
worlds
of the
silicon
of this
other stuff
it really
is
you and I
talked about
before we
leave
the present
day
to you
about
incredible
doomsday
Y2K
scenario
you know
2000 is
going to
come
the main
frames are
going to
crash
my god
there goes
social security
there goes
all the
government's
computers
and we are
now so tied
in and
dependent upon
all this
that many
people are
saying
it's real
don't laugh
everything is
going to
crash
nobody's
preparing
that day
is going
to come
it's going
to be
it's going
to be
a computer
Armageddon
well I've
heard all
this
and I
visited
the
websites
and while
I'm
reading
the
propaganda
of these
people
it seems
alarming
on the
other hand
the word
has been
out
now
but they're
not making
it Terrence
and one
has to
ask
the obvious
rebellious
question
could it
possibly
be
a good
thing
well it
would
certainly
bring
an awful
lot
of
paradigms
and
institutions
tumbling
down
all at
once
if the
doomsayers
are correct
and I
would think
that you
might
consider
that
an upside
somehow
well it
depends
on how
far
back
it
takes
us
in
I'm
advertising
absolutely
fresh
abacuses
or
something
I
think
that
as
we
get
closer
to
it
but
what
I
am
told
is
that
it's
too
late
that
even
if
they
took
all
the
computer
programmers
capable
of going
to work
on this
problem
and
started
them
right
now
they
wouldn't
even
get
close
to
solving
the
problem
by
the
time
the
magic
day
hits
and
everything
goes
kaboom
maybe
that's
not
true
because
the
obvious
conclusion
that
would
be
well
then
we
won't
pay
no
this
is
these
are
independent
people
not
the
people
who
are
seeking
to
go out
and
get
all
the
money
for
fixing
it
yes
well
then
the
question
that
needs
to
be
answered
is
too
late
for
what
let's
have
here
with
this
kind
of
a
scenario
so
just
saying
airliners
will
fall
out
of
the
sky
and
nuclear
power
plants
will
blow
up
we
need
to
know
the
imagined
sequence
of
if it's
true
it will
certainly
be
a
bizarre
comment
on the
movement
into the
first
well
I wonder
if we
are
truly
that
dependent
and
I
sort
of
imagine
that
we
are
every
single
function
of
have
this
problem
I
mean
I
could
go
on
and
mention
every
alphabet
agency
my
god
NSA
CIA
they'll
fall
apart
along
with
social
security
along
with
the
veterans
administration
and
checks
will
go
out
I
the
heist
I
have
even
my
own
webmaster
who's
brilliant
Keith
Rowland
has
several
commercial
programs
that he
has
written
I
mean
he's
really
good
and
even
he
has
the
Y2K
problem
and
he's
not
so
sure
he
can
get
it
fixed
for
his
clients
in
time
so
this
really
is
a
serious
problem
I
get
a
lot
of
email
about
it
and
I've
been
considering
it
thinking
about
it
and
if
all
came
tumbling
down
I
am
not
convinced
that
it
would
be
a
bad
thing
maybe
I
have
an
apple
I
am
devoted
with
a
name
like
mechanic
could
I
not
have
a
mac
it
is
like
it
is
a
good
machine
Terrence
but
you
know
it's
like
it's
like
a
beta
recorder
well
but
my
son
tell
me
anybody
who
doesn't
water
yeah
going
to
go
to
the
phone
stay
right
there
you
got
a
good
long
break
Terrence
I'm
Art Bell
this
is
Coast
to
Coast
AM
Rock
with
Art Bell
in
the
kingdom
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Nye
from
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US
first
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this
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it
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I'm
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Terrence
McKenna
is here
and
we're
about
to
go
to
the
phones
to
who
knows
what
but
that's
part
of
the
but
I've
decided
that
in
libertarian
spirit
I'm
really
a
libertarian
that I
don't care
anymore
and what
you do
with it
is up
to you
but we
offer
I've had
more fun
with this
over the
last year
or two
and now
you can
too
now
you can
use
the
voice
changer
for
very
practical
things
like
telling
somebody
you're
not
home
in a
voice
that
is
absolutely
not
recognizable
I mean
no
of course
not
am I
limited
to
for at
least
a
portion
of
the
range
of
the
example
of
the
extreme
ranges
of
the
voice
changer
but
with
only
a
very
small
modification
you
can do
all
kinds
of
things
and I
I'm
not
going to
moralize
about
it
anymore
you
do
what
you
want
with
it
it's
$69.95
and
I've
decided
it is
not
my
responsibility
to be
worried
about
what
effect
it
will
have
unleashing
this
on
society
$69.95
if you
want
one
so
it
takes
about
two
seconds
to
install
them
and
boy
you're
off
and
running
that's
it
not
responsible
for
what
you
do
with
it
have
fun
the
number
to call
in the
morning
to get
one
at
that
price
$69.95
is
1-800-522-8863
that's
alright
back
now
to
the
world
of
Terrence
McKenna
on the
side
of
a
volcano
by
the
way
Terrence
just
eventually
push
alternate
control
delete
being
there
on the
side
of
of a volcano, you would be the first, probably in all probability, to experience the moment
of deletion.
Well, it depends.
We were talking about the Y2K problem, I'm what I'll do.
You know, that's a great idea, actually.
As far as living on this volcano is concerned, if it's true that the devil we know on the
other side 50 miles away into one problem, and to have it be a natural volcano is the
volcano.
Now, I'm not an expert on things volcanic, but I do think that the great danger is not going
to be in place, and the entire volcano, until finally the entire thing blew up, creating
probably a new island or new portions of an island, but in the process, erasing Terence
McKenna, and everybody else.
Well, you know, people have only been here a thousand years or so, and what went on in
the remote past of Hawaii, I think there were very geological events, a geological congress
out here in Hilo, a couple of, there was evidence presented for these, in earth is a violence
that isn't an opportunity, cards right now.
Anyway, listen, here we go, let's go to the phones.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Terence McKenna in Hawaii, in the boondocks
there.
Where are you?
New York.
You're going to have to yell at us.
Boy, you're not too strong.
Yell at us.
It's better for you.
All right.
Yell the question.
Okay.
Well, I'd like to ask Terence to analyze an experience of mine.
Can DMT in your brain be released?
There's not a very studied, I was, maybe what yoga light on, it must be pretty like a good
idea, but the Rixico and the report on that, organization which actively works for the
legalization of psychedelics, but a very good journal results.
Everybody who got the scientific studies available on the other side.
Here's why I ask.
Last summer I never tried any sort of mind-altering drug, but at that point I tried marijuana for
the first time.
Experiences seem to be quite, you know, I listened to your first a lot, although not completely,
but a lot of the elements you spoke of the Jays.
Is that what you experienced or not?
Yeah, that's one of them, also the experience of going to...
Well, I think what you're describing is what sometimes cannabis, it hits with the impact,
the old cannabis, and it becomes a much more manageable life.
And that's why somebody else who doesn't know what they're talking about may...
Well, while there is some enlightenment out there, Terence, I read a report from the
UK stand by that report that the World Health Organization conducted a rather comprehensive
study on cannabis and concluded that it was less harmful than either cigarettes or alcohol,
and that the entire report was suppressed and will not be released for reasons that most
of us understand.
Well, every study of cannabis ever done since the 1898 British High Commission report on
cannabis is a conclusion.
Richard Nixon appointed a study group.
They reached the same conclusion, and each one of these reports is buried.
And people ask why.
You ask me this.
I really believe that it makes people, or if you want to take a more sinister view,
cannabis were legal.
The people who think we're going to legalize cannabis, chemical engineering,
they want a lusting, easy-going style that...
Would you care to comment on why the government has not yet...
Me?
Yeah.
Well, maybe they're hoping somebody else will do the job for a level of...
It's true.
I can imagine the culture crisis getting McKenna and his friends.
Oh, boy.
Noah said, do the world as a...
Kind of a loser scenario.
An enslave...
I believe in pro-noia, which is the opposite of paranoia.
I believe the reality is a marvelous addition and amusement, and that everybody's working
very hard to make me happy.
All right.
Well, let me bring on one of these happy folks right now.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with the ruler of the world, Las Vegas.
You're going to also have to yell at us.
We're going to...
Oh, I'm sorry.
That's all right.
You're just listening on Hot Talk 105.1 FM.
Yes, sir.
Okay.
Let me know briefly what I think are a mysterious sequence of events that have recently occurred,
and get your comments, if I could.
I got a book that has some sacred geometry in it.
Yes.
And I started fooling around with some of the shapes.
And then I had a dream that ended with me standing next to the building in midtown Manhattan,
where the ball drops on New Year's Eve.
Yes.
And there were a group of short, wide, dark beings,
excuse me, wearing the same color blue that you have on your commercial.
No.
Okay.
Here's the weird part.
I went to the library.
I got a textbook about geometry.
Yes.
And on page 21, it's Lesson 4, Definitions.
Decide which of the following statements are good definitions of the italicized words
by determining whether or not their converse is a true.
If it's New Year's Day, then it's January 1.
That's an example.
And the answer is a good definition because if it's January 1, it's New Year's Day.
And then right next to it, the following statement is a definition of extraterrestrial creature.
An extraterrestrial creature is a being from a place other than the Earth.
Then they have like the converse, inverse, and contrapositive of the statement.
Okay.
Well, the question is, you know, in the dream, whatever they were beings were standing next
to I think what could be described as the symbol of New Year's Eve, which is, you know,
where the ball drops on New Year's Eve.
Right.
They were standing right next to that.
Then in this book, these two references are side by side, New Year's Day.
And extraterrestrial creature.
Huh.
And I'm thinking that maybe there's some meaning there that I'm not going to get your input.
Yeah.
Let me ask Terrence about it.
Terrence, it brings us back to the geometric beings or sentient beings, I guess, that you experienced with the MT.
You know, there's an interesting question for you, and it is that I interview a lot of near-death experiencers.
I interview a lot of people like Gordon Michael Scallion who have had some sort of physical trauma to their selves,
and inevitably, near-death experiences, physical trauma followed by psychic ability.
All of these people, Terrence, talk to me about having seen geometric patterns and shapes that brought them an understanding they never had before.
I know it sounds weird, but believe me, it's common.
And isn't there possibly a common thread to your experience with DMT?
Yes.
I mean, these journeys into these higher seem to demand people with no...
If you remember in the days on the battle of what he saw in the underworld, he talks about the spirit of the universe is trying to reach us.
All right, we'll pick up on this.
We're at the bottom of the hour, and I've got a break here.
The clock says I've got a break, so I've got a break.
We'll be right back.
To talk with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from east of the Rockies, dial 1-800-825-5033, 1-800-825-5033.
West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, 1-800-618-8255, 1-800-618-8255.
Now again, here's Art Bell.
The words of that really pair of listening to, you know what?
Good morning, everybody.
Terrence McKenna is here.
I'm Art Bell.
He'll be right back.
Once again, here is Terrence McKenna.
Do you remember Michael Dukakis, Terrence?
Yeah, he ran for the presidency, and he was a fellow that took the very unfortunate video of himself in a tank bobbing up and down,
trying to prove that he had military sympathies and so forth and so on, and he looked silly.
You remember that?
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, in the debates, Michael Dukakis was absolutely floored when somebody asked him, they were debating the death penalty or something,
and somebody asked, well, what if somebody killed your wife?
And instead of saying angry, instead of getting angry and saying, well, I'd kill this son of a bitch, you know,
and whatever else people expected him to say, he was very moderate, and he was perceived to have lost the debate.
So I have a Michael Dukakis-like question for you.
Okay.
It comes by a faxer.
Dear Art, you and Ms. McKenna were talking about how hung up on sex we are, and how we should be more like France,
where they're more open-minded about sex.
One thing that is always brought up is how the president of France has a mistress, and it's no big deal because the French are so open-minded.
Have you ever noticed how they're open-minded when it comes to men having a mistress?
But I don't think that men are that open-minded when it comes to their own wife.
Now, I don't think you'd be so open-minded if it was your wife that the president of the U.S. put the make on.
Now, what do you say, Terrence?
Well, however, let me try to cast myself into this.
You're trying to.
If I were married and the president of the U.S. put a make on my wife, then I suppose like Hillary.
And my point being, it's a personal matter for these people's government.
I think it's a trivialization.
People are, I mean, I'm amazed.
I'm here with Terrence McKenna.
Hello.
Where are you, please?
Well, we don't need lie detectors.
We need truth detectors.
Why do we need crap?
What?
Yes.
Perhaps we need BF detectors.
I have a statement on trans and universal.
Have you heard of that idea, that observation?
Sure.
Pardon me?
Now, you've got to be careful here because we've got a delay because of the system we're using.
So it's like you've got to ask the question and then pause and listen to the answer, and then when the answer is complete, speak again, caller.
Ask your question again.
I have a statement and I have a question.
The question on Timothy Leary's observation about intelligence squared and how it's a two-edged sword as regards psychedelic substances.
Well, say if you take 120 IQ as being one and a 60 IQ as being .5 and a 240 IQ as being two, you not only square the intelligences, but you square the difference of the intelligences as well.
So if you are four times as intelligent as somebody else and you take a substance, you could become 16 times as intelligent as that person.
That person would actually become stupider and you would become much smarter.
All right.
Well, let's hold it there.
Here.
Here's the slightly smooth.
All right.
Very well said.
West of the Rockies.
You're on the air with Terence McKenna in the wilds of Hawaii.
Hello.
Hello there.
Where are you?
I'm in Salt Lake.
Salt Lake City.
All right.
Turn your radio off and ask your question, sir.
Go ahead.
Yes.
I wanted to ask Terence what he thinks of people in cities.
All right.
The subject of time.
Let us talk about that a little bit.
What would you say, Terence, of the nature of time?
I was talking to a physicist the other day who suggested that time is absolutely our invention
and that once there was nothing, then there was one thing and then finally there were two things.
And when two things existed, then we had time because we could measure how one moved against the other,
how far away one was from the other.
Until that moment there was no such thing as time.
And really there is no such thing as time today except as we measure it.
The introduction in the West is real, capable of answering.
It seems to me, though, there's an arrow to time.
And also this new force, probability theory is not important.
The probability is fluctuation is that indicates a universal tendency to fluctuate into higher
and higher form.
This is not the theory of evolution.
It's a theory that in the presence of a magnetic stream.
Well, you can even observe, Terence, a macrocosm of that in your own.
If the coin coming up heads means we go through these cycles where literally almost nothing bad can happen.
Everything is good.
Everything is coming up heads.
And then we run smack into a wall and tails will start to come up.
But it doesn't seem, it does seem to run in those exact sequences that you talked about and I can't understand why.
Well, you put your finger on it when you said we see this pattern even macrocosmically in our own lives.
We see it in history.
We see it in the planet's history.
We see it at every scale where we define time and I maintain right down a few milliseconds.
And that in a way we have to, when we look at nature and probability theory and yes.
This is where our thing is not yet a scientific explanation.
When you do think about it, what is your perception during that trip?
Well, concerning time, you mean?
Yeah.
Another way that you have only been gone for X number of minutes, or is it an experience...
There is an elongation of time, not a spectacular...
No matter how many times you do it, it never repeats, you just go back to the same one again.
Bizarre.
Like you have 25 years old to a 15-year-old white...
Wow.
And I didn't say anything at the time because I didn't...
What the feeling was, it wasn't a statement, it was a lesson...
Oh, that's a remarkable story.
That really, I'm going to give that some serious thought over time.
First-time caller line, you're on the air with Terrence McKenna.
Hello, where are you please?
Hi, I'm from Silver City, New Mexico.
Okay.
And Terrence, and...
Good morning.
We spent some time together down in Karimako about five years ago at the...
In Theogenic Clinical Herbalist.
...viruses and bacteria, remedies, or...
I've been wondering if you are not found...
Yes, one might also, though, question whether some of the new and mutating viruses and bacteria
are not being delivered by these healing...
At any rate, what...
It is a very good question, Terrence.
We have all of these new little bugs that are turning against us in increasing numbers,
with our ability to combat them decreasing at about the same rate.
What's going on?
Well, one thing that's going on is we're disturbing habitats that have never been...
That's what the Ebola thing is.
Nature is fighting back in the scientific community that believes that scientific and military community...
As a matter of fact, Terrence, they don't understand it.
We have had objects coming down in Greenland, over El Paso, Colorado,
and more things coming down with no good astronomical explanation whatsoever.
And who knows what they're bringing with them?
Yes, I think it's a problem.
This little scare bring people to...
It looks like...
Anything else would be highly improbable.
And then it's just a matter of...
Right where you are.
And we'll be back to do one final hour.
Terrence McKenna is my guest.
This is...
I'm Art Bell.
Don't touch that dog.
I can't wait forever
Even though he won
Me too
Can't wait forever
Do we know
To think of you
Be the truth
I'm all in heaven
With that alone
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
From east of the Rockies, call Art at 1-800-825-5033.
West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico at 1-800-618-8255.
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And you may fax Art at area code 702-727-8499.
Please limit your faxes to one or two pages.
This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Now again, here's Art.
Terrence McKenna is here this morning in the early hours.
Not so early for him in Hawaii.
About the midnight hour or so.
We'll get back to him in a moment.
All right.
Here's what Dave says the President should have said in his State of the Union address.
Members of Congress, people of America,
I banged her.
I banged her like a cheap gong.
Which is not news, folks, because if you think Monica Lewinsky was the only skin-glute player in my orchestra, you haven't been paying attention.
The only babes in DC I have not tried to do are the First Lady, Reno, Albright, and Shalala.
Mostly because they're a little older than I like and they have legs that former Houston oiler Earl would envy.
Right?
Which isn't to say that I don't appreciate Hillary.
I do.
If not for the ice water coursing through her veins, I'd be pumping gas into farm equipment in Hope, Arkansas, and she'd be married to the President.
So, let me set the record straight.
I dodged the draft, hit FBI files, smoked dope, flipped whitewater properties, set up a new Korean wing in the White House,
fired the travel staff, paid hush money to Hubble, sold the Lincoln bedroom like an upscale Motel 6,
and grabbed every ass that entered the Oval Office.
Got it?
Good.
Now, if he'd said that or some variation of that at any point, what do you think the reaction would have been?
Well, I could.
It was some very.
Yeah, I can't doubt that.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Terrence McKenna.
Hello.
I'm out here in Los Angeles.
This is Jeff.
Yeah.
I'm having a problem with a little bit of Terrence's trips with DMT.
I'm near 50 right now.
And I used to play around with DMT in a crystallized form back when I was around 20 years old.
And he says that you, you know, I want to get this correct.
Are you saying, Terrence, that you keep having the same trip over and over?
Because I didn't find that to be true at all.
No.
I think what I'm saying is that it takes me to the same place, a unique character.
It's not like anything else.
And it keeps doing, it keeps being what it is each time I try it.
Well, I personally found myself that it didn't take me to the same place.
In fact, the only way that it even took me at all to the same, even calling it the same
place, it was just hallucinations.
Or I wouldn't even call them hallucinations really.
I'd call them more distortions.
And I find that with most psychedelics, like LSD for instance, that in all the trips I've
taken and all the experiences I've taken with other people, that I've never personally
had a bad trip, but I find that more people that have bad trips with LSD and psychedelics
are people that are not as stable.
Yes, I agree.
Dissolve bad psychedelics, there's something for everybody.
I view it as you need to know your...
Terrence, here we go again.
I'm trying to devote this to the listeners because I could ask you a million questions.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Terrence McKenna in Hawaii.
Where are you, please?
Hello, Art and Terrence.
I'm in Bob, Oregon.
Okay.
Right.
All these things you've been talking about tonight, I'd like to put them in the same pot
and stir them up and see what comes out.
Computers are sentient beings.
When you look at the depths of our perceptions, for instance, I've been studying people's ability
to perceive signals from the earth, and then look at the sexual beings and the underlying,
how are you going to put those together, all that process, and then kind of...
Well, in a way, what I think is going on is that active unconscious enunciated by,
that could only express its psychedelics also through light on that.
We're going to become a planet thing that goes along, which is again in the historical adventure.
And this is all being done by, in the six, now in a position to, technologically,
to the unconscious.
I mean, I believe in information, and I believe at any time in history,
and this was not the technologies that...
Actually, the internet, of course, the genesis of it.
Well, do you think that they, in effect...
They creatively spread beyond that to you and me.
And now, and how it's used.
Use to the Rockies.
You're on the air with Terence McKenna.
Hi, where are you, please?
Hi, this is Byron in Shreveport, Louisiana.
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir, Art.
I love this show.
I just discovered you this month.
I didn't know such a good thing was on the air late at night.
Well, it's, as I tell people, it is different.
It certainly is, sir.
Especially for those of us who work nights, and then on our nights off we can't sleep.
So, this is wonderful.
Well, here's a question I have for Terence.
This has been happening to me for some time.
When I heard Terence speak of the universe reaching out to us, or trying to,
it brought home to me some things that are happening.
When I was getting my first degree, I took a philosophy course, and I asked my professor,
I said, sir, do you ever have patterns come to you?
And he said, what do you mean patterns?
I said, well, I'll be going along doing my business, and on the news or in a magazine
or a book, a word, an unusual word jumps out at me.
And I'll go, okay.
I'm a word hound, so I kind of take note.
Then, later that same day or the next day, the very same unusual word jumps out at me again.
And then the next day, in a very different place, the very same unusual heretofore, rarely, or maybe never seen word, pumps up again.
So, I thought, well, maybe some thing is trying to tell me something.
So, I would take note of that word, then I'd go along for months, and then it happens again with another word.
I didn't know what to call this phenomenon, so I just called it a pattern, because it kept reappearing.
But I wondered, you know, when Terence mentioned the universe trying to reach out to us, Terence, do you suppose that could be one form of some outer intelligence reaching in?
It may not be that deep philosophically.
I'll give you one answer.
For example, if you go out and buy a new Chevy, a Nova car, all right?
Right.
Herefore, you will not have noticed Novas.
Now, you will suddenly see Novas everywhere.
Yes, sir, that's true.
So, it may be that or it may be deeper.
Terence, what do you say?
Well, it's funny, again, to mention Jung.
He had this concept, which he called synchronicity, which is the incidence.
What I mean by that is you're thinking about Mr. Fishman, to whom you owe money, and suddenly there's a fish right on the street in front.
This was how the intoxicated on psychedelic drugs.
Synchronicities can multiply in on the inside of this.
I mean, this resonance between mind and...
So, as you see this fish reminding you of the man who owes you money, flopping on the ground, do you take pleasure?
Well, I had a dead fish in my image, so it wasn't an issue for me.
It didn't flop.
All right.
No, it didn't flop.
In fact, it was quite light.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Terence McKenna.
Hello.
Where are you, please?
I'm from Sacramento, California.
All right.
You're going to have to yell at us from Sacramento.
Go ahead.
Terence, I was just wondering, at your current standpoint, relative to the great scheme of things, what would your answer be to the old question,
what is the meaning of life on our stay here on Earth?
Oh, wonderful question.
One that we started with yesterday.
You might ask it this way.
What is the greatest question that humanity could have answered for itself?
Well, you know, in classical philosophy, they said, here's what classical, these are the three leads on to the other.
I've thinking, I've tried to, and then the great, you know, what is to be the destiny of the human race?
Are we an epizoty way and from nothing else in the order of nature?
What if we are nothing more than a virtual zip on the face of reality?
Well, if by virtual you mean that we are inside them, that this is a piece of software being run, well, then to what end?
I could think of that.
My life is so much like, who writes this?
Who writes this stuff?
I mean, who thought me up?
Who thought Art Bell up and put us talking like this in front of 22 million people?
That doesn't happen in reality.
That kind of thing happens in art of a very finely honed sort.
And so I want to know, what is the medium, and who is the artist, and who's paint?
First time caller line, you're on the air with Terence McKenna.
Hello.
Hello, Terence.
Hello, Art.
Hi.
Oh, you're weak too.
I have weak phone connections.
Yell at us, sir.
I'll yell.
First of all, I want to say that I've had some DMT experiences, and I've had the privilege of doing them outside the jurisdiction of the United States.
Louder, please.
Yeah, louder.
He says he's had DMT experiences outside the jurisdiction of the U.S.
Anyway, I've had very similar experiences to the kinds of things that you, Terence, have been talking about.
Also, when I did something else, it brought me to a new space.
And what I did is I had three grams of psilocybin mushrooms, and I did this in a ritual sort of way.
I did a confession first to a friend to get things off my chest, and it was a very directed ritual.
All right, all right.
Let me then put that question to him.
He said that what he did, grams of psilocybin and so forth, he did in a very ritualistic way.
Do you think that there would be anything to that, in effect, cleansing yourself before doing something like that?
Well, certainly, energy follows attention.
You don't have to be aware that energy follows attention.
And then, you know, while it's true, these things are in place.
All right, we're going to have to hold it right there.
We're at the bottom of the hour, and we'll head into the final portion in a moment.
Terence McKenna, my guest this morning.
I'm Art Bell.
From the high desert in the middle of the night, this is Coast to Coast AM.
Taking our faces, tracing the romance in our hands.
To talk with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nile, from east of the Rockies, dial 1-800-825-5033.
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Then, 800-893-0903.
This is Coast to Coast AM, from the Kingdom of Nile, with Art Bell.
It is, hello, and good morning, everybody.
Terence McKenna is here for about another 25 minutes or so.
Here's kind of an interesting fax, a dissenting fax, and here's what it says.
computers, as we know them, will never become self-aware.
They barely work.
They do what I program them to do.
I design the system-embedded software.
And if you only knew how screwed up the software is,
you wouldn't be worrying about the Y2K bug.
As a matter of fact, if the Internet itself actually ever did become self-aware,
the first thing it would do would be to delete Windows 95.
After Dark is more than just a time beyond daylight.
After Dark is the definitive chronicle of nighttime radio, the Art Bell newsletter.
And a fresh, exciting copy could be delivered right to your door every month.
You've listened to Art on Coast to Coast AM, and you've heard him on Dreamland.
Now, for those who want more, there's After Dark.
Every issue is packed with interviews, news analysis, photographs, many in color,
hilarious cartoons, reader contributions, and, of course, Art's personal insights.
That toll-free subscription number is 1-800-917-4278.
That's 1-800-917-4278.
The mag has closed in.
Art Bell is here.
And so is After Dark.
And so is Terrence McKenna.
And that is an attitude, Terrence, of a programmer who does this embedded software thing
and admits to being totally script, so that it's never going to be self-aware.
That is, I guess, one attitude.
Is that macro thinking of one single programmer who is failing to embrace what's actually really going on?
Looking at the AI pages, and I would just recommend to someone with that attitude that they search words like,
and look at the stuff quoted, I find the evolution of softness, I don't feel, in other words, no one has taken up here.
Wouldn't the real evolution begin when technology becomes a reality
and these begin to either replicate themselves or to write their own, in effect, write their own software,
taking leaps beyond what we can do?
Because I think you're right.
Well, that would be one revolution.
Another, I think, that will come sooner is when everything is implants,
when, you know, the equivalent of today's computer is some interfacing so that we don't feel it as a machine.
We feel it.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Good morning with Terrence McKenna.
Where are you, please?
Bill, you're going to have to yell at us.
Go ahead.
Okay.
How's that?
Better.
Terrence, you were talking a little bit about the fish on the sidewalk.
Right.
And I have had three bottles, 100 micrograms each at the same time,
so 300 micrograms IV, oh, hundreds of fish on the sidewalk.
I'll give you just one quick one, and I want to take it one step further away to the motor vehicle
to put $35 from my girlfriend to get my motorcycle back in the 70s.
And I said, wouldn't it be something, you know, to see an interesting plate come up?
Well, it came up UIO35.
To take the fish store one step further, and I found it hundreds of times,
you're thinking or whatever, as you think.
Yes, well, now you're on page 220, and is that it?
Of course, the ultimate aspirate.
Imagine this.
I am the author at times.
Other times, you're nothing but a bit player.
The trick is to get some handle on that.
Then working at it.
All right.
Excellent.
Thank you very much.
Very good question, actually.
First time caller line.
You're on the air with Terrence McKenna.
Hello.
Yes.
Well, I eventually want to get to, I have a physical condition known as cough syncope.
And when I combine that with the Hatha yoga discipline known as Uri Anabana,
and I am a 60s child as well.
I'm your age, and I've experimented with Purple Housley's.
The trigger and internal biological could be a natural production of DMT that allows me
to enter a prolonged, I guess we call it flow consciousness now, lucid dreamings involved,
synchronicities involved.
Well, this is, we were talking earlier about this.
Disagreed with us.
That's what you said in the introduction.
Our Kool-Aid acid test, Ken Kesey and the others on the bus,
it's 10,000 hits of the original Purple Housley's that's buried out near Winnemucca,
about 50,000 hits of the world.
But, you know, my experience, Anna, you mentioned, you know, probability theory,
and really that comes down to quantum mechanics now, and you begin to understand non-locality.
And when you look at it from the, all, say, massages, aliads, shamanism,
all of this, you know, really does take us, the geometrical, when you look at the sulfur.
That what we're going to have to understand, psychedelics, psychedelics,
this has been going on for a long time, not using big objects.
To this scientific paradigm, you're not going anywhere, right?
See, what's held, one of the issues around drugs is that scientists don't study them from the inside
because this would compromise their supposed academic object.
In order to be as public about it as you are, one must find a remote mountainside in Hawaii
and become a virtual or very nearly a hermit and then speak out with some safety.
Is that a fair assessment?
That's about it.
By voluntarily becoming a physical hermit, I get to have a podium in cyberspace.
Wildcard line, you're on the air with Terrence McKenna.
Good morning.
I'm from KHVH, Honolulu.
Honolulu.
Boy, what a route.
Yeah, louder, please.
Okay.
Terrence, are you in the Big Island?
Because the New Agers say the Big Island is like an energy vortex.
You have Pele, the volcano, and Pele, which is also a Hawaiian goddess.
And then I was looking at the map.
No, I don't think you have to be a sense that the Big Island is an energy center.
We've got the world's largest vapor into the air.
And then do you like being there?
Because, like I was looking at the map, the Big Island is 180 degrees,
almost exactly the other side of the world from the pyramids of Giza.
Which is another energy vortex.
No, what interests me about the Big Island is that it's at 19 degrees 30 minutes north,
which is the critical place to study the sky when I go to Palenque and Uxmal.
Right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Terrence McKenna.
Where are you, please?
WJ27 on your Minnesota state map, Art.
All right.
And I listened to you probably for the past year or so, and it's unbelievable how hard it is to get through,
but I tried twice, and here you are.
I used to subscribe to Hive Times, and there's 150 different varieties of indica from Hawaii.
Do you believe that to be true?
Like it was.
But I used to live in Northern California, and I experienced red hair and purple hair sensimelia,
and it's, you know, the Dom Periam of, you know, that region, in my experiences.
And I also have one other statement that, between your two minds, I'm just wondering if, you know,
this could be possible, that I had surgery, major surgery, and kind of saw it coming in,
that, you know, I was slowing down and my life was coming to an end.
And now, after recovery, that I'm getting this feeling that, other than just an act of kindness, which is possible,
and I'm a nice individual, but I just seem to be looking for my age.
I look young, and I just keep to myself, and I'm kind to other people.
But lately, over the past week to 10 days, people that I normally wouldn't have contact with are smiling at me,
and it just seems to me like I have this image of the look of death.
But it's channeling through these people, and, you know, they recognize me in that certain way.
I'm just wondering if that's as crazy or if that could be true.
No, you're going to die.
Well, that sounds good.
I don't know.
Terrence?
I don't know.
You know, intuition is intuition, and noise is noise.
And it's a very – so what you do is you cook.
To the Rockies, you're on the air with the answer man, Terrence McKenna.
Hi, Terrence.
This is Phil.
A lot of past year there.
Do you share through any other medium other than the Internet, Terrence?
The Internet is pretty much – I've been interviewed in the past.
It must have been.
It really must have been.
It was weird.
Degrees, 19.5 but 19.
Have you ever listened to Richard Hoagland and his discussions about hyperdimensional physics?
Oh, yeah.
The problem is, Art, I knew these guys too long ago that I know how squirted.
All right.
One last – I think we're almost out of time.
Wild card line.
You're on the air with Terrence McKenna.
Where are you, please?
Alive.
And a couple of questions.
One was –
This is an Ibogaine.
Well, I'm interested in the fact – what do you think of the fact that they're the only
two plants that are illegal to grow in the United States and Ibogaine being an addiction?
Ibogaine was made – was put in that human beings and an indictment against – against
religious medical offices off the gallows in order to get bodies to do dissecting mines.
The answer, Terrence, is they're chicken.
Now, we're out of time.
I want to ask you one quick question.
One of our network employees just came back from Hawaii, Honolulu and elsewhere, and said
the island is like a crispy critter.
It's so dry.
She had never seen Hawaii in the state it's in right now.
Is that true?
Yeah, the way rain occasionally, store water.
That's almost impossible to imagine, recalling the Hawaii that I saw when I was living on
Maui.
Listen, that's it.
We've gone through all the hours, Terrence, and once again, you have been ever so gracious.
What a wonderful interview.
And aside from a few interruptions, your new phone system in the wilderness is working
just spiffy.
Terrence, got to say good night.
It's a great pleasure to talk to you, Art.
Good luck.
Take care.
And when I come, I want to see you, Terrence, all right?
We've got a guest room for you.
You take care, my friend.
That's Terrence McKenna, folks.
That's it for tonight.
I'm sorry.
Clock says I've got to go.
From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
Good night.