her.stnewthe library is open ->
library / Terence McKenna / At the 4th Annual Amazonian Shamanism Conference 2008

At the 4th Annual Amazonian Shamanism Conference 2008

Dennis McKenna / 2008-01-01 / audio 39:11 ~33 MB opus 119 kb/s

This 2008 talk captures Dennis McKenna speaking at the Fourth Annual Amazonian Shamanism Conference without notes or prepared remarks, drawing from three decades of direct relationship with ayahuasca. He traces how the isolation of alkaloid compounds in the nineteenth century began medicine's separation from spirit, then explores ayahuasca as a teacher reaching humanity through many channels, from traditional curanderismo to neo-shamanic contexts. McKenna frames humans as symbiotes with plants, called to share botanical knowledge as a form of spiritual activism against death culture. Throughout the talk he emphasizes humility before the vastness of what we don't know and argues for critical thinking and direct personal experience as alternatives to faith-based belief. The talk is worth the time for its rare combination of scientific rigor, indigenous wisdom, and philosophical urgency about the role of consciousness in human survival.

transcriptmachine-transcribed, unedited

Well, I'll talk about that in a second. First of all, I just want to say it's a great pleasure to be here at the fourth annual Shamanism Conference in Nikitos.

It's been, I missed last year, but the previous two were great events. And it's wonderful to be once again in Hotel Parthenon and to see so many familiar faces and new faces. And it's just a mitigated pleasure.

And thanks to Alan Shoemaker and Mariela, the real force behind the throne, if you want to put it that way, for organizing this and all the other people that have put such effort into it. Let's give them a hand.

Okay, well, I'm a little tired. I've been at three conferences. I've been doing two conferences at once here in Nikitos, the previous one, and a conference at the University, Universidad Nacional de la Paraguana, who some of you know about it and some of you don't.

So I'm a little exhausted. And I keep waiting for the inspiration to come. And unlike most of the time when I present here before, I usually have a PowerPoint up there.

And, um, as you know, I like to download a lot of information in my talks, usually. Um, but that's not going to happen tonight because I don't have any prepared remarks.

So, I guess it will have to come from the heart, which is really the best place for it to come from.

Um, ayahuasca's been, uh, for about 30 years.

I say that, uh, path has been, whether it's been significant or not, and some people seem to think so, and for that I thank you, but every interesting thing that's ever happened to me in my life has been because of ayahuasca.

Um, it's led me to some really strange places, both, uh, on this planet and, uh, I guess on other planets, I don't know, and some interesting dimensions.

But, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's rich.

There's, we don't know anything.

And the more I take ayahuasca and the more I study this, the less I, the less I actually know.

And I think, again and again, I think ayahuasca, you know, if it, if it has a lesson to teach us, the lesson is really.

About anything.

That's one of the lessons.

So, I don't know who it was.

You know, maybe, maybe Socrates or somebody said, you know, the first path to wisdom is understanding that you know nothing.

And I think ayahuasca teaches that, that there is a vast and marvelous universe out there.

And we, only the tiniest slice of that.

And so we should be, secondly, we should be humble when we realize how little we know.

Again, I've said it before in many speeches, but I, I do mean it sincerely.

Ayahuasca says, and I think to many of us, you monkeys only think you're running the show.

Not running the show.

Plants are running the show, as they always have.

Plants sustain life on earth.

Plants are, and plants are, are teachers.

If it weren't for plants, if it weren't for this ability of plants to photosynthesize, this is the trick that they've learned.

And by that trick, they sustain all life on earth.

They are the element that biology uses to bring energy out of the cosmos and bring it into the biosphere and create this precious that we inhabit.

We're all, more or less, parasites on plants.

Everything that doesn't photosynthesize is a parasite on a plant, on plants, either directly or indirectly.

But maybe we don't like the term parasites.

Maybe a better term is, or the way we'd like it to be, is we're symbiotes on plants.

Symbiotes, symbiosis, is when two organisms of vastly different species live closely together for mutual benefit.

And this has always been the relationship that humans have had, although we haven't always realized it.

Nor have we treated our plant partners truly as equal partners.

Nor have we respected them, perhaps, the way that they deserve.

I think at this historical juncture, it's very interesting that ayahuasca is, well, it is going global.

It's reaching out to the human species.

It's trying to deepen this alliance.

The alliance that Kiranderos, the indigenous people, always had with ayahuasca is now spreading.

And the Kiranderos say the plant calls, that the vine calls.

And it obviously is true.

It's called all of you here.

You wouldn't be here, you wouldn't have made the effort, if you didn't have a deep feeling and inner motivation to come here and learn what you can from the teacher.

And the teachers, the Kiranderos, who are the guarders of the knowledge.

I think we have to be careful.

I think there is a tendency in the face of a powerful mystery, in the face of a true tremendo, which is what ayahuasca is.

There's a tendency to, it's a natural human tendency in the face of something powerful to reach out and say,

yes, this is my thing, and the way I present it is the right way.

And the way those people over there are presenting it, no, they don't know what they're doing.

But I think that's a danger.

I think we really have to, again, be humble and say, ayahuasca decides how, where, and to who.

I've been increasingly sort of fascinated by the various vessels in which it chooses to come to humanity.

Not everyone can come here and drink ayahuasca with Kiranderos.

Some people encounter it in different ways.

Some people encounter it in the neo-Shamanic context of Marin County in California or Hawaii.

Others are drawn to the UGD or the Santo Dining.

Others are drawn to the more traditional Kiranderismo.

Others make it up as they go along.

And as far as I can see, it's all good.

You know, this is all good.

Because the important thing is that ayahuasca is reaching out to people.

And it finds many vessels and many channels through which to filter its message.

We should never lose sight of the fact that the ultimate teacher, the ultimate Kirandero, is ayahuasca.

Ayahuasca is a teacher.

The Kiranderos are the keepers of the knowledge.

There's no one way to do it.

Ultimately, the important thing is that there is a content.

There is a vessel.

It's important to have that content, that vessel.

But the real learning comes when one communicates directly with a teacher.

A teacher, it's an intensely individual thing.

You may have it within a context.

But I think, you know, you should do what you feel is right.

The important thing is that you have the experience.

That you connect with the teacher.

That we're all plant people.

We wouldn't be here if we weren't plant people.

We're called to this conference by a plant.

We move out into our lives and do what we do.

And a plant is our chief counsel.

We do what we do because of plants and for plants.

So we have to sort of take on this matter.

I mean, if we have it already, we have to realize, you know, we work for the plants.

And so we need to do what the plants want us to do.

And I think what the plants want us to do is to form symbiosis.

And they want us to share information.

They want us to teach other plant people.

They want plants to want us right around.

That's what they do.

They want symbiosis because that's a way to further their agenda.

And we need to follow that.

We need to do what plant people have always done.

Which is share plants.

Share knowledge.

The most revolutionary thing you can do is grow a garden.

And to give the cuttings away to your neighbors.

Urge them to grow it and give them away.

Use the abilities that plants have to spread around.

To spread not only their life-giving sustenance.

But also the knowledge that they contain.

This is the only thing that's going to save us.

Is the sharing of this knowledge.

In some sense.

I mean, sometimes.

A phrase I sometimes use.

Which I feel a little ambiguous about using it.

In a sense.

Is we're all bioterrorists.

These sacred plants are our bioweapons.

But our bioweapons don't kill people.

Unlike the death cultures.

Bioweapons.

Our bioweapons.

The bioweapons of plant people.

Change hearts and minds.

They change thinking.

This is what we have to do.

Is change thinking.

On a global scale.

And we have to help the plants do this.

This is.

This is our mission.

To the extent that we can.

That we can.

Do this.

I mean, the plants.

I think have reached the point.

Where they need our help.

And they need.

You know.

This is why they're spreading.

This is why they're reaching out.

This is why so many people feel drawn to it.

You know.

I mean.

You all came here.

For different reasons.

And you're all following different plans.

Different paths.

And yet.

At the end of the day.

Here we are.

And we're here.

To learn.

From a plant.

Or.

Lots of plants.

But one.

Or two.

In particular.

Ayahuasca.

And chakruna.

In combination.

And.

We're very fortunate to have these teachers.

You know.

We're very fortunate to have this medicine.

You know.

And I think.

I think that we have to.

Kind of.

Not.

We don't want to commit.

The error.

That the death culture.

Commits.

Which is this notion.

That we're at the pinnacle of nature.

We can own nature.

And we can control it.

You know.

That's.

What they do.

What we do.

Is.

We have to fight back.

You know.

And these are the tools.

That we use to fight back.

Because these are the tools.

That change.

Hearts and minds.

And that's the only way.

It's going to happen.

And I think.

You know.

I think that we'll win.

That the life culture always.

Prevails over the death culture.

But what I'm concerned about now is.

You know.

These evolutionary time scales.

That.

This has always gone on.

Millennia.

And hundreds of millennia.

We don't have that much time.

About 50 years.

Before it will be clear.

That either.

We're going to make it.

Or we're not.

So we have to get.

We have to.

Get to it.

We have.

It has to somehow move more quickly.

I'm not sure.

How that's going to happen.

Everything is accelerating.

You know.

We have to use.

The tools that we have.

The ability to propagate.

Information.

Rapidly.

The ability to use.

The internet.

And other information.

Technologies.

To spread these teachings.

The ability to.

Use.

Mods of knowledge.

Mods of teaching.

Most of all.

Our own personal.

Experiences.

And symbiosis.

With the planet.

Plants.

And with the planet.

To counter.

Propaganda.

The bullshit.

Of the death culture.

You know.

We have to make a stand.

For life.

We have to make a stand.

For survival.

And I was this as well.

You know.

Get to work.

You monkeys.

You only think you're running things.

Get to it.

We've given you the tools.

We have the tools.

And in a way.

I guess I'm.

Obviously.

Preaching to the converted here.

I mean.

You know.

You're all here.

So.

I don't really need to.

Say this message to you.

I mean.

You all realize it in your hearts and minds already.

You are the.

That you are the catalysts for change.

And I think it's a case of trying to educate.

The rest of.

Our friends.

You know.

Who may not have access to these medicines.

Who may be caught in the.

In the webs of propaganda and lies.

That you know.

The global corporate government hegemony propagates.

It's very hard to get out of it.

You know.

But.

I don't know what to say.

I think.

We have the tools.

We have to use them with all our hearts.

And all our minds.

And.

You know.

I guess through events like this.

We're trying to do that.

And we have to be.

You know.

Above all.

We have to be humble about this.

We have to realize how little we know.

And we have to avoid being.

Committing the same.

Sort of mistakes.

That they have mistakes.

To.

Appropriate things.

You know.

And the plants.

Remember.

The plants have their way.

And.

However you come to it.

That's good.

The important thing is.

That you have the connection.

With the plant future.

It will teach you.

What it wants you to know.

You know.

I.

For a long time.

As a scientist.

You know.

A lot of my.

Relationship with ayahuasca.

Has been driven by.

Scientific curiosity.

And I don't think there's anything.

Wrong with that.

I think that curiosity.

Is something that drives.

Discovery.

It's something that moves us forward.

You know.

But I've been conflicted.

For a long time.

Because.

About.

The scientific.

This got.

Study of ayahuasca.

Because although.

I've done a lot of it.

When it comes to.

The question.

Of.

Doing.

For example.

A biomedical study.

On ayahuasca.

For.

Something like.

Addiction.

Or alcoholism.

Or.

Things like that.

On the one hand.

You know.

There's the human impulse to.

Yes.

Well.

This medicine.

Can help many people.

Who were hurting.

Who could benefit from it.

So.

It would be good.

To have it.

Accepted.

Into.

Medical practice.

You know.

But then.

The regulatory.

Framework.

To enable this to happen.

Is so daunting.

It's almost as though.

They've set it up.

They've made it impossible.

Really.

To move.

This medicine forward.

And to enable it.

To become part of.

You know.

Sort of.

This.

This soulless.

Biomedicine.

You know.

There are numerous issues here.

Regulatory.

The whole attitude.

Biomedical science.

For natural medicines.

For plant medicines.

The failure even.

Of biomedicine.

To acknowledge that.

We have souls.

You know.

Souls have been.

Next to the soul.

The spirit.

Has been exorcised out of medicine.

For about 200 years.

I mean.

That began.

Early on.

Really.

About the turn.

Of the.

Nineteenth century.

When.

Pharmacist.

Sutra.

First isolated.

Morphine.

In a pure form.

From the opium pot.

And.

He was the first one.

To get a crystal.

Form of morphine.

And.

He tested it.

On himself.

On his friends.

And found.

She had.

Reproduced almost.

All the effects of opium.

You know.

Right.

Here we have a pure compound.

That's.

A lot like opium.

So.

We don't need opium anymore.

You know.

We don't need this plant.

We can just extract this.

Pure compound.

And use that.

It's a lot easier to measure.

It's a lot more potent.

And it's all these things.

And that really was the beginning of the sort of.

The sort of.

Changing attitude.

That led to.

The current understanding.

That led to the current understanding.

That we have of medicine.

And that led ultimately to the exorcism of spirit.

Out of medicine.

You know.

Medicine came.

I mean.

Shortly after morphine.

You can.

The 19th century.

In some ways.

You can think of it.

As the age of alkaloids.

Alkaloids.

Which morphine is probably the primary.

A prime example.

Alkaloids are easy to isolate.

That's why the primitive technologies of those days.

Was able to do that.

So.

After morphine.

You know.

Quickly followed.

Quinine.

And caffeine.

And cocaine.

And nicotine.

And hyosiamine.

And all of these alkaloids.

That we value.

As both medicines.

And drugs.

Of abuse.

If you will.

They came along.

Because they were easy to purify.

And so it led to this sort of.

Mindset.

In biomedicine.

That you know.

Organisms.

People.

Were just machines.

They had no spirit.

I mean.

And illness was.

The result of.

A malfunction of the machine.

And you know.

You can apply.

You can apply the right.

Molecular.

Screwdriver.

Or monkey wrench.

However you want to.

Think of it.

And you can tweak something here.

And you know.

Upregulate a receptor.

Or downregulate an enzyme.

Over there.

And it would all be good.

You know.

You'd be healing.

So this idea that.

You know.

Of the spirit.

It has nothing to do with healing.

It has nothing to do.

With essentially.

Who we are.

You know.

Has.

Sort of began.

At that time.

In a sense.

Permeated medicine.

You know.

So medicine is very.

You know.

They want to be scientific.

And reductionist.

They look at.

You know.

We're just complex machines.

And they've totally lost.

The understanding that.

You know.

The mind.

And the body.

Are.

An integrated system.

You can change the mind.

And change the body.

You cannot heal the body.

Without healing the mind.

You know.

Seems.

To this group.

Pretty.

Obvious stuff.

I mean.

This is stuff.

Curaderos have known.

For.

Thousands of years.

And they would say.

What?

Well.

Of course.

You know.

We know this.

But.

You'd be surprised.

Um.

You know.

I.

I work in.

Place in.

You know.

My actual day job.

Or part of it is.

I work for the.

Center for Spirituality and Healing.

And at the University of Minnesota.

This is the Alternative Medicine Program there.

So.

Now.

I mean.

I have to tell people.

I want to give speeches.

I said.

I work for the Center for Spirituality and Healing.

You know.

I mean.

I'm sorry.

It's such a new age sounding name.

You know.

Spirituality and Healing.

What's that?

You know.

But.

That's what I work for.

And.

It's a hopeful sign.

Because I think the person that founded this program.

Is very brave.

To name it that.

Because it's.

From.

Sort of.

Stick it in your eye.

Acknowledgement.

That in medicine.

There is no healing.

Without healing of the spirit.

And slowly.

You know.

These.

Alternative medicine programs.

Under whatever name.

Integrated medicine.

Or whatever.

Holistic medicine.

Or.

Sort of.

Trying to turn around.

The institution of biomedicine.

But it's happening very slowly.

And there are great forces.

Arrayed against it.

You know.

The pharmaceutical companies.

Certainly don't like this.

Uh.

Mainstream science.

Doesn't like this.

You know.

This doesn't fit into the paradigm.

Of you know.

Getting grants.

Proving your.

Experiments on the rats.

And then doing.

Control.

Double blind.

Clinical studies.

I mean.

It's an awkward paradigm.

Under the best of circumstances.

When it comes to psychedelics.

You may as well throw that out the window.

It's just.

You know.

It's absurd.

It's so absurd.

But if you want to get your stuff published.

You know.

You have to do that.

Otherwise.

You know.

They'll come down on you.

I don't know how many of you.

Are aware.

Probably most of you are aware.

Of this.

Interesting study.

That Roland Griffiths did.

A couple of years ago.

With psilocybin.

And mystical experience.

Um.

It was a placebo controlled.

Double blind.

Clinical study.

Using psilocybin.

In a group of.

Of psychedelic.

Naive.

Patients.

People who had never taken psychedelics.

But had an interest in spiritual matters.

And.

Um.

It got great reviews.

In the mainstream media.

Not because.

You know.

Of what it showed.

But because.

It was a.

Well designed study.

Right.

We can't.

Criticize this.

Because it was.

Well designed.

What came out.

What was the conclusion.

It came out.

Well.

30% of the subject.

Said.

It was the single.

Most significant.

Experience.

Of their lives.

And 30.

30%.

67%.

Or thereabouts.

Of the patients.

Said.

It was among.

The five most significant experiences.

Of their lives.

These were people who had never taken psychedelics.

Oh my God.

If you have a medicine.

That can provoke.

The single.

Most significant experience.

Of your life.

I think we ought to be looking into that.

Don't you?

You know.

I think we ought to be looking into that.

You know.

And.

You know.

But it goes slowly.

I mean.

It got.

You know.

It was on CNN.

And it was.

It was in the media.

For a week or so.

And then people moved on to.

You know.

Of the latest.

Whatever it was.

Britney Spears.

Dysfunction.

Or John McCain's lives.

Whatever.

You know.

I mean.

This is one of the poisonous aspects.

Of mass culture.

It's.

It.

It moves very quickly.

So it's very hard to keep this in.

In front of.

In front of people.

I mean.

Even the.

The.

Drug.

Action.

Even the people.

In the drug abuse.

Industrial.

Political.

Complex.

Who.

Have criticized.

Psychedelic research.

For years.

And who have said.

You know.

These things have no.

Possible use.

They're simply.

You know.

Drugs of abuse.

And they should all be.

Evaluated.

And everybody should be locked up.

What has any interest in that.

Even they were forced to say.

Yeah.

This.

This was a pretty good study.

Actually.

I mean.

We have to admit.

He did a good job.

You know.

But they failed to see.

The implications.

Beyond that.

I mean.

They grudging.

Acknowledge.

That he did good science.

But.

If you came up with something.

That could provoke.

The single.

Most important.

Most significant experience.

Of your life.

I mean.

That's important.

Calling.

Press conferences.

All over the place.

You should be.

Proclaiming it to the world.

For the first time.

Since.

Spirit.

Was exorcised.

Out of nature.

We.

Have a mix.

Treat.

The spirit.

That can actually.

Reunite.

Reintroduce.

The spirit.

Into nature.

That's huge.

You know.

That is really.

Really.

Find a body.

In the spirit.

And.

As a species.

And.

As individuals.

We need these.

We need these medicines.

Because.

As a species.

We're losing our spirit.

As a species.

Our spirit.

Is mortally wounded.

That's why.

The death culture.

Has.

The vice grip.

Right now.

On all the world's wealth.

On all of the world's resources.

And apparently.

The world's agenda.

Because.

Well.

They haven't.

Had the opportunity.

To seize it.

And so.

They have.

And.

We're just now.

Beginning to gather.

Our strength.

And.

Getting ready.

To fight back.

And I guess that's the optimism part.

You know.

People are waking up to this.

I mean.

I come to conferences like this.

I travel all over the world.

This is happening everywhere.

Everywhere.

That there's access.

To these plant spirits.

To these plant teachers.

You know.

This is.

Literally.

Grassroots.

If you will.

Literally.

From the roots.

Revolution.

That's taking place.

Revolution.

That's taking place.

Out in various parts of the world.

You know.

All over the world.

Australia.

Europe.

Japan.

Hawaii.

The United States.

Canada.

You may.

Middle East.

Well.

Maybe not so much.

Although.

Even there.

It's beginning to happen.

And.

You know.

It's one of these.

Things that.

When it begins to go on.

You almost don't notice.

I mean.

We're still.

Above the margins.

We're still sort of dismissed.

By the deaf culture.

But.

You know.

We just.

Keep going.

And keep talking.

And keep propagating.

The plants.

And keep sharing the information.

Or in the plants.

In the knowledge.

You know.

And.

Things have a way.

Of going exponentially.

And.

That's what.

We're hoping for.

You know.

That's in fact.

What has to happen.

It will reach a critical mass.

At a certain point.

Where more and more people.

Will wake up.

More and more.

Will get the message.

And they'll be able to.

Share the message.

With their.

Neighbors.

And people that.

Maybe have never been exposed.

To these ideas.

That are locked in.

You know.

Some capitalist.

Or.

Or religious.

You know.

Ideology.

Can suddenly.

Oh wait.

Wait.

There's.

There's another way to look at things.

You know.

We can look at things.

From the perspective of life.

Instead of death.

Why should life be all about.

Waiting for your death.

Why should we respect a religion.

That's founded on necrophilia.

And genocide.

To admire that.

I don't see much.

You know.

And this really.

Is where it comes from.

I mean.

That the mindset.

Of the.

Of the global corporate hegemony.

Really.

Has grown out of these.

Religions of death.

And.

It isn't good.

I mean.

The world doesn't need these things.

The world needs a religion of life.

You know.

We need to affirm life.

We need to acknowledge.

That we are biological entities.

You know.

And that we're.

Part of the biosphere.

We're not separate from it.

We're semi-permeable membranes.

You know.

Things flow in.

And things flow out.

And we're all part of this.

Chemical ecological system.

That binds everything together.

The earth itself.

Is a living organism.

We're just.

You know.

We're like mitochondria.

Orgonelles.

Floating around.

In this vast.

Organismic environment.

That is.

That is the biosphere.

You know.

And I think.

If people.

Sort of.

Understand that.

And help.

And integrate that.

Into their.

Living.

And their understanding.

Standing.

By living sustainably.

By not doing.

Practices.

That.

You know.

That hurt.

Our mother.

That hurt.

The biosphere.

Trying to avoid that as possible.

You know.

Reject consumerism.

Reject propaganda.

And think for yourself.

You know.

Make your own conclusions.

I mean.

That's the other aspect of it.

And that's where we also have to be very important.

Very.

Very careful.

Because even within our group.

You know.

As I said before.

There is.

Even among plant people.

There's a.

A desire to appropriate this power.

Or to appropriate this knowledge.

And say.

You know.

We're the ones.

We're the way.

The truth.

And the life.

We're the ones that have.

The only drip on how ayahuasca should be used.

Or what's appropriate to do with mushrooms.

And all that.

I don't really think we have to assert those kinds of things.

Ayahuasca is very capable of presenting itself to everyone in the world in a way that

they need to have it presented.

You know.

And we should just relax about this appropriation of power.

We should just say.

It's all good.

You know.

It's coming to many, many, many.

Many people.

More and more people all the time.

And it's coming through the filters that it chooses.

You know.

So that's fine.

Let it unfold.

You know.

The important thing is.

That each individual person.

has a chance to form their own conclusions because they have this intensely spiritual, intensely personal experience with the plants.

And the plants have a different message for each one of us.

So I love psychedelics.

For one reason, one of the reasons I do love psychedelics is you can approach it in a completely scientific manner.

And keep your skeptical radar turned all the way up.

You know.

You don't have to believe anybody.

You don't have to have faith.

And by faith, in fact, I think faith is one of the things that we need to get rid of.

Faith is one of the part of the shell game that has been foisted on us for a millennium.

If by faith you mean being asked to believe something without any evidence.

That's what faith is.

So I make a distinction between faith and belief.

You can have all kinds of beliefs.

You can believe many things.

And you can have a lot of evidence to back them up.

But faith, I make this distinction and make it just semantic.

Faith is being asked to believe things without any evidence.

You must have faith in myself.

Right?

Bullshit.

Show me some evidence.

Come on.

Some evidence.

So, you know, you say the world was created 6,000 years ago.

Show me some evidence.

You know.

Or you say God is, you know, Jesus came down to save us.

Whatever.

Show me the evidence.

Let's.

We're in a paradoxical situation.

You know.

We're all, you know, as a large group, we're all dismissed.

This is sort of, you know, anti-intellectual, woo-woo, hippies who never really think about

anything.

And here it is.

Suddenly, we're applicants of reason.

We're the ones that say, you know, how about a little critical thinking for a change?

You know, why should we accept what our religious leaders, our political leaders, our scientists, you know, our self-appointed holy ones, our gurus, our teachers, all of these people say to us.

Why should we accept this?

You know, what makes them qualified to stand up here and rave like I'm raving to you now?

Why should you accept what I'm saying?

Absolutely no reason.

In fact, don't accept what I'm saying.

I don't want you to accept what I'm saying.

I don't need your faith and I don't need your following.

I want you to think for yourself and use critical thinking and keep your skepticism high.

Don't even accept what psychedelics tell you.

How about that?

You know, I mean, they're as tricky as anybody, you know.

But you have the ability to evaluate the message and draw your own conclusions.

And that's what's cool about psychedelics.

They do not require faith.

You can simply take them and draw your own conclusions.

And one person may say, well, you know, clearly this is a channel from God himself.

And, okay, we can debate about that, but that's your conclusion.

Or somebody else says, well, clearly, you know, it's dumb-headed beings, you know,

in the, you know, from Zeta Meticuli that are, you know, propagating this message.

And, okay, or the curanderos might say, well, it's the spirit of the plants.

The psychedelics connect you with the world of plant consciousness.

Well, that's their conclusion.

That's fine.

You know, others would say, well, clearly, you know, the psychedelic experience,

is the, you know, the malfunction of a toxified brain.

That's okay, too, you know.

Make your own conclusions.

Don't believe in them.

Believe in yourself.

If you need to have faith, have faith in yourself.

And I guess that's my concluding remark.

And I'll answer some questions.

Everybody does.

files 3
originaloriginal file (mp3)mp3 24kHz stereo, 64 kb/s~17 MBget ->streamat-the-4-th-annual-amazonian-shamanism-conference-2008.oggopus 48kHz stereo, 119 kb/s~33 MBget ->transcriptfull transcript (machine)~27 KBget ->
more from Terence McKenna
<- cd ../