Dream Awake

This audio recording captures Terence McKenna in a lecture setting, developing an extended metaphor about waking consciousness, sleeping states, and the dream-like logic of reality. Drawing on Gurdjieff, Jungian psychology, and his own experiences with altered states, he argues that genuine contact with transcendent experience requires not heightened awareness but a kind of productive unconsciousness and receptivity. McKenna frames this paradox through the hypnagogic zone (the border between waking and sleeping), Athanasius Kircher's motto "while sleeping, watch," and the observation that collective consciousness exists in an indeterminate state somewhere between total sleep and total wakefulness. He traces implications across epistemology, synchronicity, dream metaphors, and the possibility that human history unfolds according to narrative and archetypal logic rather than mechanistic cause and effect. This piece rewards close listening and willingness to follow McKenna's associative mode of thinking across linked territories of philosophy, mysticism, and lived experience.
transcriptmachine-transcribed, unedited
Thank you all for turning out on a rainy night.
Before I get into the main body of tonight's entertainment,
I want to call your attention to the propaganda for an event in Mexico and another event in Hawaii.
These events, in the case of the Mexico event, you get a major slice of the psychedelic community.
You get Robert Montgomery, Jonathan Knott, Ann and Fasha Shulgin, Manolo Torres, Christian Resch, Terence McKenna,
and others who unfortunately slipped my mind at the ceremonial center of Palenque in Chiapas.
We've been doing these events somewhere in Mayan, Mexico for the past 10 or 12 years.
Many of you are graduates, which doesn't mean you can't come again, but I want to invite all of you there.
If you're interested in ethnobotany, shamanism, ethnopharmacology, altered states of consciousness,
the politics of all of this, this is as intense and information-packed an exposure as you can have,
and it's straight from the mouths of the scholars and scientists and writers who have spent a great deal of time in that area.
So I just want to invite you to that.
It's also a great party.
It's the height of mushroom season.
And there's nothing we could do about that.
So you just are on your own.
So when I start out on these tours, I usually have an agenda and prepared remarks.
And then as I make my way through my venues and I hear the feedback and I feel the ambiance of the people
and the throb of the zeitgeist, it all sort of just simply dissolves into an ongoing commentary
on our moment in space and time and the various dimensions, adumbrations, and opportunities of our dilemma.
But I want tonight to couch it for you in the context of, I guess, an extended metaphor.
We could talk about these things in many ways, but I find this particular extended metaphor illuminating.
And I start by recalling an observation from someone whose name rarely falls from my lips,
and that would be Gurdjieff.
And Gurdjieff said at one point, or was known to comment, that people are asleep, he said.
And he, by implication, suggested people awaken.
I'm not sure if he fully grasped the implication for his own product line had that occurred.
But in any case, you're on it, you're with me, yes.
It's very hard to give these lectures in such a way so that every person hears something different,
which is what is supposed to be going on, you know.
Well, so thinking about this comment that people are asleep,
I see several implications.
I ask myself, what is awake in my own notion?
And I thought to myself, awake is, for me, awake is where the laws of physics are fully operable.
You know, hurled objects shatter, electricity shocks, I cannot fly.
The laws of physics are in operation.
In that domain, I consider myself to be fully awake.
Now, in terms of occult and spiritual traditions,
the admonition to awaken always seems to imply that higher consciousness
is approached through an expansion of clarity and awareness.
And that seems obvious.
I don't argue with it as a rationalist.
But as somebody who has run the edges,
I've noticed something somewhat counterintuitive to that teaching.
And it's this.
It's that to contact the cosmic giggle,
to have the flow of kazooistry begin to give off synchronistic ripples,
white caps in the billows of the coincidental ether, if you will,
to achieve that requires...
A precondition is a kind of unconsciousness,
a kind of drifting,
a certain taking your eye off the ball,
a certain assumption that things are simpler than they are,
almost always precedes what Mircea Liad called the rupture of plane
that indicates, you know,
that there is an archetypal world,
an archetypal power beyond,
behind profane appearances.
And in my own life,
for those of you who are conversant with my output,
when I went to the Amazon in 1971
and had the experiences that are described in true hallucinations,
I had been, for many months before that,
in Asia,
smuggling,
hanging out,
and I had taken my eye off the ball.
I had become very gentle,
very relativistic in my approach to other people's opinions and behaviors.
I was easygoing,
is what I'm trying to say.
Too easygoing.
And in that situation of semi-unconsciousness and openness,
the cosmic giggle approaches.
And I compare this,
this is closing of a theme,
I compare this to sleep,
or to states that lie between waking and sleeping.
And so, again,
an odd take on this remark of Gurdjieff.
I remember someone many years ago said to me,
they evoked the symbol of the yin and the yang,
the two tears folded against each other within a circle.
And this person,
who was no Rishi, Roshi, Geshe, or Guru,
but simply observant,
said,
it's not the black side.
It's not the white side.
It's the interface.
It's the edge.
And I found,
by observing sleep,
and some of you may recall the motto in Athanasius Kirscher's Amphiatrium Satientium,
that's chiseled over the alchemist's doorway.
I can't do it in Latin,
but it says,
while sleeping,
watch.
While sleeping, watch.
And I've noticed that while going to sleep,
there is a barrier,
a place in the process of going to sleep,
that is like a mercurial edge.
It's a river.
It's a zone of hypnagogia.
You often pass through it post-orgasm.
It's a place of drifting,
amoeboid,
colored,
after-image lights,
and then true hallucination,
images,
strange,
transcendental or transpersonal images.
Well,
so then,
so far in the context of pursuing this extended metaphor about sleep,
I've talked basically,
essentially about the individual's relationship
to the concept,
to the fact.
But there's also a social or a political,
a species-wide implication.
It occurs to me that at any given moment,
because of the way the planet is as a thing,
some considerable percentage of human beings are asleep,
always.
And many are awake.
And so,
if the world soul is made of the collective consciousness of human beings,
then it is never entirely awake.
It is never entirely asleep.
It exists in,
I guess you can hear me,
it exists in some kind of indeterminate zone.
And this to me is the clue to understanding something that is personally fascinating to me.
And it revolves around why people believe such weird things.
And why,
either as a consequence of the approach of the millennium,
or the breakdown of traditional values,
or the density of electromagnetic radiation,
or for some reason,
a balkanization of epistemology is taking place.
And what I mean by that is,
there is no longer a commonality of understanding.
I mean,
for some people,
quantum physics provides the answers.
Their next-door neighbor may look to the channeling of archangels,
with equal fervor.
I mean,
if this is not a balkanization of epistemology,
I don't know what it is.
It is accompanied by a related phenomenon,
which is technology,
or the historical momentum of things,
is creating such a bewildering social milieu,
that the monkey mind cannot find a simple story,
a simple creation myth,
or redemption myth,
to lay over the crazy contradictory patchwork of profane,
techno, consumerist, post-McGluenist,
electronic, pre-apocalyptic existence.
And so,
into that dimension of anxiety,
created by this inability to parse reality,
rushes a bewildering variety of squirrely notions,
epistemological cartoons,
if you will,
and conspiracy theory,
in my humble opinion,
I'm somewhat immune to paranoia.
So,
those of you who aren't,
you know,
gaze in wonder.
Conspiracy theory is a kind of epistemological cartoon about reality.
I mean,
isn't it so simple to believe that
things are run by the greys,
and that all we have to do is trade sufficient fetal tissue to them,
and we can solve our technological problems?
Or isn't it comforting to believe that
the Jews are behind everything?
Or the Communist Party?
Or the Catholic Church?
Or the Masons?
Well,
these are epistemological cartoons.
It's,
you know,
kindergarten stuff in the art of amateur historiography.
I believe that the truth of the matter is far more terrifying.
That the real,
the real truth that dare not speak itself
is that no one is in control.
Absolutely no one.
You know,
you don't understand Monica.
You don't understand Netanyahu.
It's because nobody is in control.
This stuff is ruled by the equations of dynamics and chaos.
Now,
there may be entities seeking control.
The World Bank,
the Communist Party,
the rich,
the somebody others.
But to seek control is to take enormous aggravation upon yourself.
Because this,
this process that is underway
will take the control freak
by the short and curly
and throw them against the wall.
It's like trying to control a dream,
you see.
The,
the global destiny of the species
is somehow unfolding
with the logic of a dream.
Well,
now a Jungian would say,
no surprise here,
history is the collective dream of humanity.
It is run by archetypal energies.
It is downloaded by the zeitgeist
into the various milieus and epochs
of,
which it is composed.
This,
this seems reasonable to me.
I don't,
I don't want to give you the impression
it's too linear
to understand
that what I am saying is
that awake is good,
asleep is bad.
What I would rather do
is explain this whole gradient
of possible positioning
vis-a-vis your life
and your destiny,
these choices
that you have,
and then
have people understand
that they choose,
you choose
to be asleep
or partially asleep
or fully awake
or to be
one part of the time
and in some situations
and one part of the time
and in other
situations.
Now,
if in fact
we exist inside
some kind of morphogenetic field
that is created
by the sum total
of human minds
on the planet
and if in fact
in half or more
of those minds
at any given moment
the rules of the dream
hold sway,
then it is no
surprise
that when we make
our way
into society
or just
when we live
our lives
there is an
eeriness
to it,
there is a
fatedness
to it,
there is a
plottedness
to it.
You know,
we are inside
some kind of
engine of narrative
I believe.
You know,
some science fiction
writers
such as
Greg Egan
and others
have suggested
that this could
even be
a form
of recorded
medium.
You can see
the thumbprints
of editors
on our reality
if you are
truly
paying attention.
I mean,
if you are
a devotee
of the theory
of stochastic
and
random
unfolding
of events
then you have
to look
very carefully
at how
unrandom
and how
mythical
and archetypal
most people's
lives are.
Now,
if you take
psychedelics
and hurl
yourself
to the edge
and spend
time with
strange
aboriginal
people
in remote
parts of the
world
the cosmic
giggle
becomes
your friend
but in
fact
people's
lives
everyone's
lives
are touched
by deep
magic
and I
you know
again
the primary
data
is experience
and then the
models are
built backward
from the
primary data
without
prejudice
and in an
attempt to
transcend
historical
momentum
and when I
do that
what I see
is that
the
carrier
of the
field
of the
cosmic
giggle
in most
people's
lives
is love
love
is some
kind of
output
which
messes
with
the
entropic
tendency
toward
probabilistic
behavior
in nature
what do I
mean by
that
I mean
you can
be the
janitor
at
Microsoft
and
the
chief
the
vice
president
in chief
of
operations
his
daughter
can
bring
him
lunch
one
day
and
you
can
from
a
distance
have
from
that
point
to
having
the
five
children
she
bears
you
go
off
to
Harvard
and
the
Sorbonne
it's
just
a
matter
of
running
the
clock
forward
these
things
have
I mean
to you
it may
seem
like
a
miracle
but
to
those
of
us
who
are
students
of
human
happenstance
it's
inevitable
you can
launch
your
story
and
I've
you know
in the
course
and looking
at my
life
and other
people's
lives
and
narrative
I
think
that
the
secret
of
I don't
want to
say
anything
as
pretentious
as
transcendence
or
enlightenment
but
the
secret
of
taking
hold
of
one's
destiny
is to
understand
that one
is a
character
a
character
is a
different
thing
than
this
idea
that
you're
a
three
dimensional
animal
inside
a
democracy
with
a
Christian
heritage
and
you know
a
dewey
decimal
cataloging
system
or
whatever
anyway
these
are
some
of
the
notions
that
occur
to
me
in
the
really
struggle
I
think
to
believe
that
you
actually
live
inside
the
model
of
reality
that
science
and
Newtonian
physics
and the
mathematical
analysis
of
nature
have
given
us
you
know
not
to
get
too
philosophical
here
but
for
positivist
philosophers
everything
that
is
important
color
feeling
taste
ambition
apprehension
appetition
these
things
are
called
secondary
qualities
in
other
words
they're
peripheral
they
arise
at a
lower
level
of
understanding
they
are
somehow
determined
by the
presence
of the
animal
body
and hence
dismissible
by a
theory
of
pure
abstraction
which
says
you know
what
is
real
is
spin
charge
angular
momentum
none
of
these
things
are
very
rich
concepts
for
a
living
human
being
who
knows
what
any
of
these
things
are
so
one
I mean
we don't
have
time
in a
situation
like
this
to
explore
all
the
implications
of
this
dream
analogy
that I'm
pursuing
but
one
that
interests
me
is
the
plasticity
of
time
in the
dream
and I
think
I would
argue
as the
devil's
advocate
that it
is the
plasticity
of
historical
time
and the
acceleration
sense
of
out of
control
spin
up
or
spin
down
into
new
domains
of
possibility
that is
the
strongest
evidence
present
at hand
that we
are
in
some
kind
of
dream
I've
struggled
my
whole
life
with
I've
always
believed
or I've
always felt
the power
of the
statement
the world
is made
of
language
but of
course
you think
about this
proposition
for 30
seconds
and the
question
that arises
then is
if the
world
is made
of
language
then
language
well I
think
it's
appropriate
to speak
of this
to an
audience
as
digitally
sophisticated
as I
assume
you
must
be
I
think
the
primary
insight
that
has
been
secured
here at
the end
of the
20th
century
the
primary
contribution
of
20th
century
thinking
if you
will
is
to
have
understood
finally
that
information
is
primary
that
this
world
this
cosmos
this
universe
this
body
and
soul
are
all
made
of
information
is a
deeper
and more
primary
concept
than
space
time
matter
energy
charge
spin
angular
momentum
the
world
is
made
of
language
the
implication
for
the
digerati
is
that
reality
can
therefore
be
hacked
if
reality
is
made
of
language
then
what
we're
saying
is
that
it's
code
and
if
it's
code
then
it
is
far
more
deeply
open
to
manipulation
than
we
ever
dared
dream
we've
been
messing
around
on
the
desktop
opening
files
with
religions
and
political
systems
and
xenophobic
theories
and racial
superiority
all this
crap
that haunts
the human
historical
adventure
means we
have not
addressed
the
deeper
level
and in
thinking about
this
and the
relationship
to dream
and human
culture
I have
realized
that
cultures
are
like
operating
systems
we are
like
hardware
the
human
animal
is a
piece
of
biological
wetware
slash
hardware
and
it
has been
we know
pretty much
as we
confront it
today
for at
least
140,000
years
at
Klasis
River
cave
mouth
in
South
Africa
they
have
excavated
homo
sapien
skeletons
100,000
years
old
and
that
person
could
have
sat
in
the
front
row
here
tonight
and
nobody
would
have
batted
an
eyebrow
so
the
human
hardware
has
been
in
place
for
a
while
what
has
changed
rapidly
in
comparison
to
the
rates
of
biological
evolution
is
are
the
operating
system
the
people
who
excavated
Ur
which
was
at
that
time
thought
to be
the
world's
first
city
and
in
any
case
is
the
city
seven
millennia
old
when
they
excavated
the
central
plaza
at Ur
they
set up
there
by
the
earliest
kings
of Ur
and
that
was
the
cultural
operating
system
and
if
in
a
deal
trading
goats
for
olives
the
dispute
arose
people
had
reference
to
the
central
operating
system
and
these
things
were
determined
well
now
Ur
was
fine
rational
exploration
of
nature
it
didn't
support
astrological
knowledge
about
the
movement
of
the
stars
as
we
have
gone
forward
through
culture
we
have
swapped
out
these
operating
systems
and
at
each
swap
out
there
has
been
a
lot
of
hair
pulling
and
cussing
and
screaming
anyone
who
sickening
from
the
bowels
kind
of
coldness
says
you
know
you
realize
it
all
hangs
by
a
thread
now
this
situation
or this
operating
system
metaphor
I think
is a
useful
one
for
understanding
and
again
a
circle
closes
the
balkanization
of epistemology
that
causes
me
such
anxiety
if
you
meet
an
aboriginal
person
from
the
amazon
for
example
they
may
be
running
Witoto
3.0
as
their
operating
system
nicely
supports
animistic
magic
huge
capacity
when it
comes to
making
fish
traps
and
bird
traps
Witoto
is a
powerful
operating
system
for
a
rainforest
aboriginal
in
our
culture
you
know
there
are
I
have
no
idea
at
least
ten
or
twenty
operating
systems
all
going
at
the
same
time
some
will
run
Mormonism
some
will
support
Catholicism
others
Kabbalah
goes at
the speed
of light
others
support
quantum
physics
some
support
econometrics
others
support
political
correctness
and
these
things
are
mutually
exclusive
and
so
looking
at
this
and
looking
at
this
clash
of
operating
systems
I've
come to
the
conclusion
and some
of you
may have
heard me
say this
before
that
culture
is not
your
friend
that's
the final
conclusion
you see
well
this came
to me
a few
months
ago
when I
had my
yearly
physical
and as
I was
buttoning up
my doctor
said to
me
he said
you know
in the
19th
century
most
people
your age
were
dead
and
and I
realized
that
that this
was true
and that
one of the
among all
the revolutions
that we
are enduring
one of
them is
that we
live
nearly
twice as
long
as
people
lived
very
recently
in the
past
well
culture
is a
kind
of
neoteny
and I
don't want
to belabor
that at
great
length
but
for those
of you
who are
not
biologists
neoteny
is
the
retention
of
juvenile
characteristics
into
adulthood
it's
used to
describe
animal
behavior
for
instance
I'll
give
the
most
spectacular
example
of
neoteny
there
is
a
kind
of
animal
which
lives
in
ponds
in
Africa
and
it
reproduces
like
a
fish
it
lays
eggs
on
the
bottom
of
these
ponds
more
fish
like
animals
come
from
these
eggs
and
so
forth
however
if
the
pond
dries
up
the
creature
undergoes
metamorphosis
and
becomes
an
animal
somewhat
like
a
gecko
and
lays
eggs
and
from
these
eggs
come
creatures
that
are
like
geckos
in
other
words
this
is
an
animal
which
are
general
body
hairlessness
compared
to
other
primates
we
look
like
fetal
apes
human
beings
look
like
fetal
apes
why
what is
neoteny
well this
is hotly
debated
among
evolutionary
biologists
but the
point I
want to
make
is
a
sociopolitical
comment
which is
culture
itself
is some
kind of
neotenizing
force
because
what it
culture
provides
is a
bunch
of
rules
so you
don't
have to
think
and a
bunch
of
myths
so you
don't
have to
think
again
culture
has
all
the
answers
you
know
you
want
to
know
where
people
came
from
well
when
the
sky
god
got
out
of
his
canoe
at
first
waterfall
and
took
a
leak
then
we
the
true
people
appeared
like
ants
and
we've
been
living
here
ever
since
oh
gee
thanks
I'm
glad
I asked
you
know
this
is
what
culture
does
for
you
so
but
now
technology
throws
a
curve
and
the
curve
is
that
we
live
so
long
that
we
figure
out
what
a
scam
this
is
we
figure
out
that
what
you're
supposed
to
work
for
isn't
worth
having
we
figure
out
that
our
politicians
are
buffoons
we
figure
by
ambition
you
know
you
get
the
picture
we
figure
it
out
well
then
as
intellectuals
and anybody
who figures
it out
is an
intellectual
believe me
because
they're
slinging
the
programming
to push
you
the
other
way
so
then
intellectuals
defined
as
people
who
figure
it
out
discover
that
you
are
alienated
that's
what
figuring
it
out
means
it
means
you
understand
that
the
BMW
the
Harvard
degree
this
whatever
it
is
that
this
is
all
baloney
and
manipulated
and
hyped
and
that
mostly
you
have
a bunch
of
clueless
people
who
are
figuring
out
which
fork
they
bad
thing
to
be
alienated
now
let's
speak
for
a
moment
in
order
to
fulfill
the
promise
read
by
in
the
introduction
about
psychedelics
and
what
are
they
doing
in
this
fine
situation
well
what
they're
doing
is
forcing
this
maturation
process
by
dissolving
boundaries
which
is
what
they
do
they
are
exposed
they
can
go
to
what
they
can
do
them
or
a
or
a

terence mckenna on twenty-five years of psychedelic research. he presents three models for understanding consciousness - psychological, shamanic, and mathematical - arguing that hu

terence mckenna at an earth trust speakers program event on consciousness, evolution, and the botany of psychedelic compounds











