Classic Radio Talks Tribute To Carl Jung

in a lonely cottage in the country

surrounded by many favourite books

which I've collected over a number of years

and as I look up at the shelves

I see that there's a very large space

occupied by the volumes of one man

Carl Gustav Jung

who left this world

not more than a few weeks ago

and I'd like to talk tonight

about some of the great things

that I feel that Jung has done for me

and also the things which I feel to be

his enduring contributions

toward the science of psychology

of which he was such a great master

I began to read Jung

when I first began to study Eastern philosophy

in my late adolescence

and I'm eternally grateful to him

for what I would call

a sort of balancing influence

on the development of my thought

as an adolescent

in rebellion against the sterile

Christianity

in which I was brought up

I was liable to go absolutely overboard

for exotic and foreign ideas

until I read the extraordinarily wise commentary

that he wrote

to Ricard Wilhelm's translation

of a Chinese Taoist text

called The Secret of the Golden Flower

and it was Jung

who helped me to remind myself

that I was by

upbringing and by tradition

always a Westerner

and I couldn't escape

from my own cultural conditioning

and that this inability to escape

was not a kind of prison

but was the endowment of one's being

with certain capacities

like one's arms and legs

and mouth and teeth and brain

which could always be used constructively

and I feel it's for this reason

that I have always remained for myself

in the position of the comparative philosopher

wanting to balance east and west

rather than to go overboard

with enthusiasm for exotic imports

but there are aspects of Jung's work

far beyond this that I want to discuss

and first of all

I want to call attention

to one fundamental principle

that underlay all his work

and that was most extraordinarily exemplified

in Jung himself as a person

and this is what I would call

his recognition

of the polarity of life

that is to say

his resistance

to what is to my mind

the disastrous and absurd hypothesis

that there is in this universe

a radical and absolute conflict

between good and evil

light and darkness

that can never, never, never

be harmonized

this conflict has come up to us

in a very vivid way

in recent days

with the trial of Adolf Eichmann

with Arthur Koestler's

passionate denunciation

of any sort of philosophy of life

and he's thinking in mind

he has in mind

particularly eastern philosophies

like Buddhism and Hinduism

which so slur

the absolute differences

between good and evil

that in their name

one could justify

the sort of crimes

which were committed

in the concentration camps

of Germany

and it's interesting too

certain people accused Jung

also

of Nazi sympathies

because

he too

would not subscribe

to

the absolute state

of a war

between good and evil

going down to the very roots

of the universe

obviously

when certain

crimes

and catastrophes

occur

human emotions

are deeply

and rightly

aroused

I would

for myself

say that

were I

in any situation

where

an Eichmann

was operating

I would be

aroused

to

a degree

of fury

that I can hardly

imagine

in my present existence

but I know it would

come out from me

I would oppose

those sorts

of villainies

with

all the energy

that I have

and if I was trapped

in such a situation

I would

fight it to the end

but at the same time

I would recognize

the relativity

of my own

emotional involvement

I would know

that I was fighting

a man like Eichmann

in the same way

shall we say

as

a spider

and a wasp

insects

which

naturally prey

upon one another

and fight one another

do so

but as a human being

I would not be able

to regard

my adversary

as

a metaphysical

devil

that is to say

as one

who represented

the principle

of absolute

and unresolvable

evil

and I think

this

is the most

important thing

in Jung

that he was

able to point out

that

to the degree

that you condemn

others

and find

evil in others

you are to that

degree

unconscious

of the same thing

in yourself

or at least

of the potentiality

of it

there can be

Eichmanns

and Hitlers

and Himmlers

just because

there are people

who are unconscious

of their own

dark sides

and they project

that darkness

outward

into say

Jews

or communists

or whatever

the enemy may be

and say

there is the darkness

it is not in me

and therefore

because the darkness

is not in me

I am justified

in annihilating

this enemy

whether it be

with atom bombs

or gas chambers

or what not

but to the degree

that a person

becomes conscious

that the evil

is as much

in himself

as in the other

to this same degree

he is not likely

to project it

onto

to some scapegoat

and commit

the most

and commit

the most criminal

acts of violence

upon other people

now this is to me

the primary thing

that

Jung

saw

that

in order

to admit

and really

accept

and understand

the evil

in oneself

one had to be

able to do it

without being

an enemy

to it

as he put it

you had to

accept

your own

dark side

he had this

preeminently

in his own

character

I had a long

talk with him

back in 1958

I was enormously

impressed

with a man

who was obviously

very great

but at the same time

with whom everyone

could be

completely at ease

there are so many

great people

great in knowledge

or great in

what is called

holiness

with whom

the ordinary

individual

feels rather

embarrassed

he feels inclined

to sit on

the edge

of his chair

and to feel

immediately judged

by this person's

wisdom or sanctity

Jung managed

to have wisdom

and I think

also sanctity

in such a way

that when other

people came

into its presence

they didn't feel

judged

they felt

enhanced

encouraged

and invited

to share

in a common

life

and there

was a sort

of twinkle

in Jung's

eye

that gave

me the

impression

that

he knew

himself

to be

just as much

a villain

as everybody

else

there's a nice

German word

hintergedanker

which means

a thought

in the very

far far back

of your mind

Jung had a

hintergedanker

in the back

of his mind

which showed

it showed

in the twinkle

in his eye

it showed

that

he knew

and recognized

what I've

sometimes called

the element

of irreducible

rascality

in himself

and he knew

it

so strongly

and so clearly

and in a way

so lovingly

that he would

not condemn

the same

thing

in others

and therefore

would not be

led

into those

thoughts

feelings

and acts

of violence

towards others

which are

always characteristic

of the people

who project

the devil

in themselves

upon the

outside

upon somebody

else

upon the

scapegoat

now this

made Jung

a very

integrated

character

in other

words

here I have

to present

a little bit

of a complex

idea

he was a

man who

was thoroughly

with himself

having seen

and accepted

his own

nature

profoundly

he had

a kind

of

unity

and absence

of conflict

in his own

nature

which had

to it

this additional

complication

that I find

so fascinating

he was the

sort of man

who could

feel anxious

and afraid

and guilty

without

being ashamed

of feeling

this way

in other

words

he understood

that an

integrated

person

is not a

person

who simply

eliminated

the sense

of guilt

or the

sense of

anxiety

from his

life

who is fearless

and wooden

and a kind

of sage

of stone

he's a person

who feels

all these

things

but has no

recrimination

against himself

for feeling

them

and this

is to my

mind

a profound

kind

of humor

you know

in humor

there's always

a certain

element

of malice

there was a

talk given

on the

Pacifica

stations

just a

little while

ago

which was

an interview

with Al

Capp

and Al

Capp

made the

point that

he felt

that all

humor

was fundamentally

malicious

now there's

a very high

kind of humor

which is

humor

jokes at

the expense

of others

it's always

jokes at

the expense

of oneself

and of course

it has an

element of

malice in it

it has

malice towards

oneself

the recognition

of the fact

that behind

the social

role that

you assume

behind all

your pretensions

to being

either a good

citizen or a

fine scholar

or a great

scientist

or

a leading

politician or

physician or

whatever you

happen to

be

that behind

this facade

there is

a certain

element of

the unreconstructed

bum

not as

something to

be condemned

and wailed

over

but as

something to

be recognized

as contributive

to one's

greatness

and to

one's

positive aspects

in the same

way that

manure is

contributive

to the

perfume of

the rose

Jung saw

this and

Jung accepted

this

and I

want to

read a

passage from

one of his

lectures which

I think is

one of the

greatest things

he ever wrote

and which has

been a very

marvelous thing

for me

it was in a

lecture delivered

to a group of

clergy in

Switzerland

a considerable

number of

years ago

and he

writes as

follows

people forget

that even

doctors have

moral scruples

and that

certain patients

confessions

are hard even

for a doctor

to swallow

yet the

patient does

not feel

himself accepted

unless the

very worst

in him is

accepted too

no one can

bring this

about by

mere words

it comes

only through

reflection

and through

the doctor's

attitude towards

himself and

his own dark

side

if the doctor

wants to

guide another

or even

accompany him

a step of

the way

he must feel

with that

person's

psyche

he never

feels it

when he

passes

judgment

whether he

puts his

judgments into

words or

keeps them

to himself

makes not

the slightest

difference

to take the

opposite position

and to agree

with the patient

offhand is

also of no

use but

estranges him

as much as

condemnation

feeling comes

only through

unprejudiced

objectivity

this sounds

almost like a

scientific precept

and it could

be confused

with a purely

intellectual

abstract attitude

of mind

but what I

mean is

something quite

different

it is a

human quality

a kind of

deep respect

for the facts

for the man

who suffers

from them

and for the

riddle of

such a man's

life

the truly

religious person

has this

attitude

he knows

that God

has brought

all sorts

of strange

and inconceivable

things to

pass

and seeks

in the most

curious ways

to enter

a man's

heart

he therefore

senses

in everything

the unseen

presence of

the divine

will

this is what

I mean by

unprejudiced

objectivity

it is a

moral achievement

on the part

of the doctor

who ought not

to let himself

be repelled

by sickness

and corruption

we cannot

change anything

unless we

accept it

condemnation

does not

liberate

it oppresses

I am the

oppressor

of the person

I condemn

not his

friend

and fellow

sufferer

I do not

in the least

mean to say

that we must

never pass

judgment

when we

desire to

help and

improve

but if the

doctor wishes

to help

a human

being

he must

be able

to accept

him as

he is

and he

can do

this in

reality

only

when he

has already

seen

and accepted

himself

as he

is

perhaps

this

sounds

very simple

but simple

things are

always the

most difficult

in actual

life

it requires

the greatest

art to be

simple

and so

acceptance

of oneself

is the

essence

of the

moral

problem

and the

acid test

of one's

whole

outlook

on life

that I

feed the

beggar

that I

forgive

and insult

that I

love my

enemy

in the

name

of

Christ

all

these

are

undoubtedly

great

virtues

what I

do unto

the least

of my

brethren

that I

do unto

Christ

but what

if I

should

discover

that the

least

amongst

them

all

the

poorest

of all

beggars

the most

impudent

of all

offenders

yea the

very fiend

himself

that these

are within

me

and that I

myself stand

in need

of the

arms

of my

own

kindness

that I

myself

am the

enemy

who

must

be

loved

what

then

as a

rule

the whole

truth

of

Christianity

is reversed

there is

then no

more talk

of love

and long

suffering

we say

to the

brother

within us

raka

and condemn

and rage

against

ourselves

we hide

him from

the world

we deny

ever having

met this

least

among the

lowly

in

ourselves

and had

it been

God

himself

who drew

near to

us

in this

despicable

form

we should

have denied

him a

thousand times

before a

single cock

had crowed

you may think

the metaphors

rather strong

but I feel

that

they are not

so needlessly

this is a

very very

forceful passage

and a

memorable one

in all

Jung's works

trying

trying to

heal

this insanity

from which

our culture

in particular

has suffered

thinking that

a human

being can

become

hale

healthy

and holy

by being

divided against

himself

in inner

conflict

paralleling

the

conception

of a

cosmic

conflict

between an

absolute

good and

evil

which

cannot be

reduced

to any

prior and

underlying

unity

in other words

our rage

and our

very proper

rage

against evil

things which

occur in this

world

must not

overstep itself

for if we

require as a

justification

for our

rage

a fundamental

and metaphysical

division between

good and

evil

we have

an insane

and in a

certain sense

schizophrenic

universe

of which no

sense whatsoever

can be made

all conflict

Jung was saying

all opposition

has its

resolution

in an

underlying

unity

you cannot

understand the

meaning of

to be

unless you

understand the

meaning of

not to be

you cannot

understand the

meaning of

good unless

you understand

the meaning

of evil

even St.

Thomas Aquinas

saw this

for he said

that just as

it is the

silent pause

which gives

sweetness to

the chant

so it is

suffering

and so it

is evil

which makes

possible

the recognition

of virtue

this is not

as Jung

tries to

explain

a philosophy

of condoning

the evil

to take

the opposite

position

he said

and to

agree

with the

patient

offhand

is also

of no

use

but

estranges

him

the patient

as much

as condemnation

let me

continue

further

reading

from this

extraordinary

passage

healing

may be

called

Jung

says

a

religious

problem

in the

sphere

of social

or national

relations

the state

of suffering

may be

civil war

and this

state

is to be

cured

by the

Christian

virtue

of forgiveness

and love

of one's

enemies

that which

we recommend

with the

conviction

of good

Christians

as applicable

to external

situations

we must

also apply

inwardly

in the

treatment

of neurosis

this is

why modern

man has

heard enough

about guilt

and sin

he is sorely

beset by

his own

bad

conscience

and wants

rather to

know how

he is to

reconcile

himself

with his

own

nature

how he

is to

love the

enemy

in his

own

heart

and call

the wolf

his brother

the modern

man does

not want

to know

in what

way he

can imitate

Christ

but in

what way

he can

live his

own

individual

life

however

meager

and

uninteresting

it may

be

it is

because

every form

of

imitation

seems to

him

deadening

and sterile

that he

rebels

against

the force

of tradition

that would

hold him

to well

trodden

ways

all such

roads

for him

lead in

the wrong

direction

he may

not know

it

but he

behaves

as if

his own

individual

life

too

ego

too

has

already

lost

his

confidence

and

rightly

so

for that

person

has

driven

him

still

further

into

his

neurosis

if I

wish to

effect a

cure

for my

patients

I am

forced to

acknowledge

the deep

significance

of their

egoism

I should

be blind

indeed

if I

did not

recognize

it as

a true

will

of God

I must

even help

the patient

to prevail

in his

egoism

if he

succeeds

in this

he estranges

himself

from other

people

he drives

them away

and they

come to

themselves

as they

should

for they

were seeking

to rob

him

of his

sacred

egoism

this must

be left

to him

for it

is his

strongest

and healthiest

power

it is

as I

have said

a true

will of

God

which

sometimes

drives

him

into

complete

isolation

however

wretched

this state

may be

it also

stands

him

in

good

stead

for

in

this

way

alone

can

he

get

to

know

himself

and

learn

what

an

invaluable

treasure

is

the

love

of

his

fellow

beings

it

is

more

over

only

in

the

state

of

complete

abandonment

and

loneliness

that

we

experience

the

helpful

powers

of

our

own

natures

end

of

quote

this

is a

very

striking

example

of

Jung's

power

to

comprehend

and

integrate

points

of view

as well

as

psychological

attitudes

that seem

on the

surface

to be

completely

antithetical

for

example

even

in

his

own

work

when

he

was

devoting

himself

after the

study

of

eastern

philosophy

he

had

some

difficulty

in

comprehending

the

let's

say

the

buddhistic

denial

of the

reality

of the

ego

but

you

can

see

that

in

practice

in

what

he

was

actually

trying

to

get

at

he

was

moving

towards

the

same

position

that

ego

just

for

example

as

the

hindu

will

say

that

the

I

principle

in

man

is

not

really

a

separate

ego

but

an

expression

of

the

universal

life

of

Brahman

or the

godhead

so

Jung

is

saying

here

that

the

development

of the

ego

in

extent

that

one

fulfills

the

function

which

this

you

might

say

temporary

illusion

has

in

man's

psychic

life

for

he

goes

on

and

says

here

when

one

has

several

times

seen

this

development

at

work

one

can

no

longer

deny

that

what

was

evil

has

turned

to

good

and

that

what

seemed

good

has

kept

alive

the

forces

of

evil

the

arch

religious

experience

demands

what

we

observe

here

is

a

fundamental

law

of

life

enantiodromia

or

conversion

into

the

opposite

and

it

is

this

that

makes

possible

the

reunion

of

the

warring

halves

of

the

personality

and

thereby

brings

the

civil

war

to

an

end

of

quote

in

other

words

he

was

seeing

that

as

Blake

said

a fool

who

persists

in

his

folly

will

become

wise

that

the

development

of

egoism

in

man

is

not

something

to

be

overcome

or

better

integrated

by

opposition

to

it

but

by

following

it

it's

almost

isn't

it

the

principle

of

judo

not

overcoming

what

appears

to be

a

hostile

force

by

opposing

it

but

by

swinging

with

the

punch

or

rolling

with

the

punch

and

so

by

following

the

ego

the

ego

transcends

itself

and

in

this

moment

of

insight

the

great

westerner

who

comes out

of a

whole

tradition

of

human

personality

which

centers

it

upon

the

ego

upon

individual

separateness

by

going

along

consistently

with

this

principle

comes

to the

same

position

as

the

Easterner

that

is to

say

to

the

point

of view

where

one

sees

conflict

which

at

first sight

had

seemed

absolute

as

resting

upon

a

primordial

unity

thereby

attaining

a

profound

unshakable

peace

of the

heart

which

can

nevertheless

contain

conflict

not a

peace

that is

simply

static

and

lifeless

but a

peace

that

passes

understanding