Light Of Nature

So, I guess that's the end of my introduction.

Can you all hear me?

Can you hear in the back?

Yeah? Not very well?

Make them hear in the back.

Okay.

Ah, that's much better, isn't it?

Is it better in the back?

Good, good.

Well, I would like to join with Roy

in thanking all of the people who made this possible.

Mary Fowler worked long and hard to make this happen.

Eric Ali did the wonderful graphics for the poster.

Pam here has controlled and managed traffic flow here this evening.

Diane and Roy are incomparable treasures in the L.A. community.

I was talking to someone today who said

they had listened to KPFK very carefully

in the month that Roy and Diane were away

and it just ain't the same thing.

It's terrifying to think that two human beings

in a city of, what, 11 million

are what's holding up the hip end of things.

As Roy said, this is a benefit for KPFK

and in a larger sense for Botanical Dimensions.

Botanical Dimensions is the non-profit

that Kat and I and Rupert Sheldrake

and Ralph Metzner, Ralph Abraham, Frank Barr,

a number of people have organized

to carry out plant rescue operations

for medicinal plants

and plants with a history of shamanic usage.

And we have a botanical farm in Hawaii, 20 acres,

maintain collectors in South America

and occasionally support collecting in Africa.

And this is our real-world political work

beyond the communicating and the publishing

and that sort of thing

where we actually try to impact

some of the negative, so-called progressive changes

that are taking place in the third world

and disrupting rainforest culture

and causing this shamanic and folk pharmacopoeia

to be lost.

So I appreciate your being here tonight

in support of that.

It's very important work,

far more expensive than I thought it was

when we organized the foundation

and it's ongoing,

so we never really seem to be ahead.

So I want to thank you for your support of that.

In line with that,

I've been living with Kat and our two children

in Hawaii on the Big Island for the past year

and not really doing any public speaking

because there was none to be done there.

And it was a very good opportunity

to get out from under the electronic umbrella

of the sprawl of North American culture

and to sort of look at it and assess it

as this practice of speaking with groups of people

has become more and more a part of my life.

It has sort of changed in my mind

from the addressing of certain topics

and the building of a talk around a theme

to more just pointing and looking

and saying,

well, here we are.

Here's where we've arrived tonight.

What is the situation?

What is the state of the world?

What is the state of the union?

I think psychedelics had a very large impact.

I'm sure there's no argument on this

in the 1960s.

But in a way,

it was not ever anchored in anything.

It was never explained to anybody,

by anybody,

how it fit into the historical context

of what had preceded it,

perhaps because no one actually knew at that time.

For instance,

there was no...

The invoking of shamanism

as an explanation

for how plant hallucinogens work on psyche

is completely alien to the literature of the 1960s.

It just isn't there.

And speaking of aliens,

the theme of alien intelligence

or of hyperdimensional organized intellect

is contacted in the psychedelic state.

That also was an absent theme.

It was basically presented,

it, the psychedelic experience,

was basically presented

as an exploration

of the contents of the personality

with a little bit of overflow

into aesthetic issues.

So I remember in the early days

we would stack our Abrams books

on Hieronymus Bosch

and Piera della Francesca

and Giotto.

And then the idea

following Aldous Huxley

was that you would

that you would imbibe the meaning

of these great works of art

behind the kind of psychic freedom

that the psychedelic substance

was going to graft on

to your ordinary consciousness.

Well, I think all those kinds of metaphors

were useful,

but it's been now 20, 25 years

of looking at that phenomenon

and also of having the future

continue to overtake us

with ever more demands

upon our cultural resourcefulness

and our ability to cognize

the cultural situation.

And I think now

it can be seen

somewhat differently.

And so these two nights

in Los Angeles

which are called

Understanding and Imagination

in the Light of Nature

are a kind of effort

to take several telescoping steps backward

and place the adventure

of psychedelic self-exploration

in context

to frame it

in a number of different ways

because I think

it's very important for us

to know

as the Hermetic Mysteries

urge us to know

whether we have come

where we are

who we are

and whence we are going

all issues

that the psychedelic experience

especially to my mind

the plant hallucinogens

bring into close focus.

Here is an opportunity

for a theater

of cultural growth

that is unparalleled.

How did we find ourselves

in this situation?

What is exactly

the nature of the cultural situation

in which then

the psychedelic response

is called forth

as part of a spectrum

of cultural responses?

Basically what's been going on

in Western civilization

for about 500 years

is the exploration

of the metaphor

of materialism

which began

as a simple

limiting case

since we are

at the Philosophical Research Society

it behooves us

to talk philosophy

for a moment

and remind you

that there is

what's called

Occam's razor.

William of Occam

was a late medieval philosopher

and his razor

was that hypotheses

should not be multiplied

without necessity

without necessity.

In other words

the simplest explanation

should be preferred

in all cases.

the fewest number

of elements

should be put forward

as necessary

for an explanation.

And following

William of Occam's

statement

of this notion

as a logical way

of proceeding

the assumption

was made

then

a provisional assumption

at the beginning

that matter

could be

separated

from the notion

of soul

and spirit

that it could be

divided

into its simplest

units

and out of the activity

of those

simple units

a model

could be built up

that would explain

more complex

phenomena

in the world

Cartesian materialism

which

was applied

very successfully

to

physical matter

to the chemical elements

and

so successfully

in fact

that the provisional

nature

of the assumption

was soon

forgotten

in the

explanatory

zeal

of the people

who had latched

onto this method

and so it was then

applied

out of the chemical realm

but moved into

the biological realm

and the search

was on

for the biologically

irreducible units

which

in the 17th century

was the cell

in great excitement

about the cell

and then

in the 20th century

of course

first the nucleus

of the cell

then ultimately

DNA

as the

constituent

of the nucleus

which was

controlling

protein synthesis

but strangely

enough

the

elucidation

of the mechanics

of the gene

through this

program

of reductionism

did not

issue into

the same

kind of

control

over the

products

of the gene

that the

same program

had

the same

kind of fruit

that had been

born in the

analysis of

physical matter

and in the

early years

of this century

when the effort

was made

to extend

the metaphor

into

psychology

the true

inadequacy

of it

became

clearly seen

so that

the effort

to break

the personality

down into

types

or complexes

or archetypes

or behavioral

strategies

all

failed

and at the

same time

that this

process

of

disconfirmation

was happening

in the

social sciences

physics

which had

been old

reliable

in the

matter

of

supporting

this

particulate

pointillistic

materialistic

school of

explanation

began in

fact to

betray it

because the

analysis of

matter was

pushed to

deeper and

deeper levels

until finally

phenomena

began to

be elucidated

which

seemed

incomprehensible

in the

mechanical

model

it seemed

as though

what had

been thought

of as

points of

matter

were in

fact spread

through

time

and the

notion of

simple

location

began to

give way

to talk

of clouds

of probability

and this

sort of

thing

all of

this

reaching

a culmination

in 1923

with the

Copenhagen

conference

on quantum

physics

where

basically

a new

vision of

matter

was

elucidated

and strangely

enough the

new view

of matter

seemed

to have

a very

mentalist

sort of

aura

about it

it no

longer was

a theory

of simple

location

calculable

energies

and

specific

predictions

it was

probabilistic

now this

re-emergence

of the

need for

a wave

mechanical

description

of matter

can I

think now

be seen

from the

vantage point

of 55

years

as the

first

stirrings

or among

the first

stirrings

of the

re-emergence

of the

spirit

and I

think that

what

understanding

and imagination

in the

light of

nature

argues

for

is

the

presence

and

re-emergence

of the

awareness

of spirit

in the

world

this is

what

the

so-called

and long

heralded

paradigm

shift

is all

about

it is

a

vast

turning

over

of the

intellectual

universe

which will

eclipse

many idea

systems

and support

many more

it is the

idea of

fields

spirit

need not

be defined

or even

conceived

in any

sort of

19th century

or mentalist

or animist

way

what spirit

is

a field

of

deployed

energy

that is

somehow

co-present

at more

than one

point

in space

and time

it is

the shadow

that haunts

the particularized

world

of Newtonian

matter

and it is

strangely enough

the commonest

object of

experience

in other

words

as we

move

through

our

lives

as we

project

our

hopes

as we

plan

our

days

as we

execute

our

jobs

we

move

in this

realm

of

spirit

the problem

is

that we

have

been

very

slowly

but

very

efficiently

corralled

inside

an intellectual

system

which gives

no credence

to spirit

and therefore

has had a

curious

effect

on the

validation

that we

give our

own lives

for instance

if you

look at

positivist

philosophy

which is

the

dominant

philosophical

paradigm

in academic

philosophy

there you

learn that

there are

primary

and secondary

qualities

to

the world

and the

primary

qualities

are

charge

spin

angular

momentum

velocity

this sort

of thing

things which

nowhere come

tangential

to the

felt

world

of the

individual

well then

there are

also

so-called

secondary

qualities

color

taste

tone

feeling

all the

things

that make

up the

world

that you

and I

experience

so somehow

we are not

traveling in

first class

on this

metaphysical

airliner

you know

we're back

there with

the secondary

qualities

and the

good stuff

is all

up front

and it

is described

and manipulated

by

incomprehensible

equations

and you

have to

enter into

a priesthood

to become

part of it

well

it's to our

credit I think

that we are

waking up

and one of the

reasons that we

are waking up

is because

into the

objects of

common

experience

by an

exhaustive

search of

the objects

of common

experience

diligent

clear

thinking

seekers

after

understanding

people who

are practicing

who took

seriously the

constitution's

assurance of

the pursuit

of happiness

have

Robert Bork

notwithstanding

have found

more than the

right of

privacy in the

constitution

but have

actually found

the right

to alter

your own

consciousness

for purposes

of personal

growth

well

consciousness

is like

a still

pool

if it is

unperturbed

it returns

a clear

image of

the world

in the same

way that the

unperturbed

surface of a

pond will

become a

mirror to

the environment

around it

but if

consciousness

is perturbed

by being

shifted from

its ordinary

modalities

then

the

extraordinary

tenuous

and

provisional

nature

of what

we call

reality

swims

into our

ken

and we

see

you know

that what

we take

to be

solid

objects

what we

take

to be

here

and now

what we

take

to be

personal

identity

versus

other

in the

form of

other

personalities

that all

of these

things

hang

by the

most tenuous

of linguistic

threads

and cultural

conventions

and that

beneath the

surface of

those conventions

is utter

terra incognito

a no man's

land

the unexplored

territory

behind cultural

assumptions

suddenly

starkly

totally

incontrovertibly

illuminated

to the

inspection

of the

individual

well

this

is

feeding

indeed

to my

mind

it is

the major

factor

responsible

for

the

re-emergence

of the

awareness

of the

spirit

it holds

out the

possibility

that we

can create

a new

definition

of our

own

humanness

that it

was fine

for purposes

of disentangling

from the

medieval

church

to take

the

materialist

route

and to

follow it

into

Darwinian

evolution

to

recognize

our

ascent

from

previous

primate

forms

and to

sort of

claim

a dimension

of

existential

freedom

but that

is

not the

whole

story

that

essentially

is the

legacy

or the

achievement

of

modernism

which

was

fully

worked

out

by

or

I would

say

I mean

those

people

the

pataphysicians

the

quantum

physicists

the

dadas

the

surrealists

Alfred

Jarry

Andre

Breton

it was

all

worked

out

and

those

of us

who were

born

after

that

time

and

have

come

into

this

sort

of

pseudo

eschaton

of

regurgitation

of

modern

values

in

art

fashion

and

literature

have

been

living

in

this

kind

of

a

goldfish

bowl

ever

since

I mean

really

it's

astonishing

the

century

in

the

last

ten

or

twenty

for that

matter

there

has

also

been

an

extraordinary

backward

current

a

very

strong

recidivism

that

has

held

at

bay

the

true

exfoliation

of

what

modernity

was supposed

to

mean

that's

why

within

the

20th

century

the

further

back

you

go

the

more

utopian

the

projection

of

the

future

becomes

and

the

20th

century

you

go

the

more

like

a

dystopia

it

becomes

as

we

get

not

elevated

railways

immortality

and

hot

pants

but

you

know

bread

lines

and

germ

warfare

and

doublespeak

and all

of these

things

so

into

this

situation

of

retrenchment

and cultural

recidivism

and the

working out

of

modern

values

which are

materialist

values

comes

then

the

beginning

of the

postmodern

era

I

prefer a

different

term

which I

call

compressionism

the

compressionist

era

which

follows

the

modern

era

and

its

theme

is

the

reemergence

of the

presence

is

the

discovery

of

relativism

with

regard

to

consciousness

which

does

not

only

mean

psychedelic

drugs

and

hallucinogenic

plants

per se

it also

means

media

it also

means

literary

expectation

reorientation

of the

senses

through

design

urban

planning

the

entire

spectrum

of

effects

which

feeds

consciousness

back

into

itself

is

enunciating

this

theme

of the

emergent

spirit

and it

is not

necessarily

a welcome

theme

because

all

institutions

attain a

certain

momentum

toward the

preservation

of their

own vested

interests

and

science

and the

handmaiden

of science

which is

modern

technocratic

government

have

created

a number

of cultural

institutions

that

have a

friction

with the

reemergence

of the

spirit

first and

foremost

is the

notion

of the

public

the

public

is this

weird

idea

that was

generated

in the

wake of

the

printing

press

that

there

were

vast

numbers

of

people

who

could

be

treated

atomistically

they

didn't

have to

be

thought

of

as

individuals

they

could

be

thought

of

as

various

classes

masses

of people

to be

manipulated

and if

you could

sell

these

the

public

on the

idea

of

democracy

which

is

another

one

of

these

atomistic

notions

the

notion

of

democracy

is

that

for

us

all

to

get

together

and

have

work

themselves

out

what

they

don't

tell

you

is

that

at

the

same

time

that

you

build

this

definition

of

the

citizen

you

also

build

the

institutions

which

subvert

the

citizen

so

the

citizen

is

not

free

to

act

out

and

express

the

wishes

of

the

propaganda

so

there's

this

peculiar

playing

off

of

one

against

the

other

in

the

meantime

what

has

also

been

happening

is

the

institutions

of

language

which

previously

were

pretty much

left to

develop

on their

own

and

that

was

the

situation

well

into

the

19th

century

through

the

power

of

the

printing

press

the

evolution

of

language

also

became

something

under

the

control

of

these

institutions

and

they

very

quickly

have

replaced

whatever

reality

may have

been

impinging

into

the

lives

of

the

citizens

with

concepts

replace

reality

you

come

into

the

world

with

a

blank

slate

and

everything

is

what

William

James

called

a

blooming

buzzing

confusion

well

then

one

by

one

you

isolate

phenomena

in

this

confusion

and

you

name

it

once

a

sector

of

reality

has

been

named

it

stays

still

it

ceases

to

behave

the

way

it

would

behave

for

itself

it

begins

to

behave

syntactically

because

it

has

been

changed

into

a

linguistic

object

when

things

behave

syntactically

they

are

either

subjects

or

objects

or

the

syntactical

machinery

which

relates

these

two

together

in

that

case

materialism

dualism

projection

of

authenticity

beyond

the

self

are

all

reinforced

so

these

are

the

factors

which

have

impeded

the

spirit

into

this

comes

the

psychedelic

experience

it

has

a

tremendous

force

to

revivify

the

spirit

particularly

because

it

is

not

an

ideology

it

is

not

something

someone

figured

out

it

is

an

experience

and

this

is

important

to

bear

in

mind

it

horrifies

me

I'm

sure

you've

heard

me

say

it

to

think

of

someone

going

from

birth

to

the

grave

without

ever

coming

tangential

to

the

psychedelic

experience

it's

like

going

from

the

birth

to

the

grave

without

ever

discovering

sex

it

means

that

you

died

as

a

pre

adolescent

you

know

you

never

really

came

into

your

birth

right

and

we

have

been

infantilized

by

our

to

accept

the

notion

of

ourselves

as

citizens

consuming

this

regurgitated

scientific

models

which are

then

hashed

through

by

Madison

Avenue

and

then

handed

down

to

us

by

the

organs

of

mass

culture

and

this

is

supposed

to

be

what

we

anchor

our

lives

on

it's

no

wonder

that

drug

abuse

child

abuse

self

abuse

is

rampant

in

this

society

because

it

all

has

been

taken

away

from

us

you

may

read

and

think

well

thank

god

it

isn't

that

bad

yet

well

the

only

difference

between

us

and

is

we

dress

better

so

I

this

meeting

was

sold

out

I

could

I

have

to

see

you

I

have

to

I

have

to

before there was any promo

other than Roy's show

and a small mailing we did.

So you are people who have passed through

a very narrow filter.

You stay up late.

You listen to KPFK

and you tolerate Terrence McKemma.

So you are either thrice blessed

or thrice cursed.

I don't know which it is.

But anyway, it feels to me

like a family gathering.

It feels to me like

we are figuring this out

and there aren't that many of us, I think.

But what we understand as a group

or what I imagine that we understand

is that there is this twilight of reductionism.

There is this end of the old model

and yet we're not ready to proclaim

the twilight of reductionism

to simultaneously be the funeral of reason.

You see, there are a lot of people,

a much larger group than we represent

who are prepared to bury reason

along with reductionism.

and I think reason

may have been caught in bed

with reductionism

but it may have been set up

is the take that I have on it.

And as they used to say in Watergate,

linked but not tainted.

I am a very

some people even

someone said I was

I was accused of being

narrow-minded the other night

because

I come to this

very honestly

through the sciences

through trying to

really find out

what was going on

and not just accept everything

that came down the pike.

I mean, I will believe anything

if there's evidence,

if it's self-consistent,

if the case

is well made.

I mean, I think that the first thing

the truth will be

is

a pleasure to hear.

You know, and not some

turgid and tormented thing

where you have to go to six meetings

and not talk to anybody

who doesn't believe it

and all of this sort of thing.

So I think

it's important

as the

what I call

the archaic revival

gets rolling

it is important

for us to clarify

where we are coming from.

When we were simply

the lunatic fringe

of the lunatic fringe

it hardly mattered.

But responsibility

will devolve on us

to say what we mean

and to

have a position

which is

not only convincing

to the converted

but convincing

to the skeptics.

That's who I'm after.

You know,

because I think

that a great

instance of cultural blindness

is what we're confronted with

on the issue

of psychedelics.

Psychedelics are

to the science

of psychology

what the telescope

was

to astronomy

in Galileo's time.

And we are

in a situation

of increasing

global pressure

on our species,

increasing

outbreaks

of neurosis,

unhappiness,

psychic epidemics.

and we are

leaving our

best tools

behind

because of

fairly preposterous

cultural

prohibitions.

Cultural

prohibitions

which deny us

our best

weapons

for overcoming

the situation

that we are in.

And this is

really an intolerable

situation

because

the fate,

nothing less

than the fate

of the human

species

probably hangs

in the balance.

We cannot afford

the luxury

of an unconscious.

We cannot afford

stupidity,

closed-mindedness,

racism,

sexism,

consumer materialism,

selfishness,

an absence

of globalism.

These things

are not necessary

for us

for our moral

edification

so that we can

feel like

well-bred ladies

and gentlemen.

These things

are necessary

for us

so that we

don't destroy

ourselves.

And the fact

that

this message

is so slow

coming out

is a strong

argument

for activism

on the part

of anybody

who thinks

they have

even the faintest

glimmer

of what is

going on.

You know,

the future

will not wait.

I see

the most

crypto-fascist

and intransigent

of institutions

slowly waking up

to fairly

basic facts

such as

that a

nuclear war

is probably

a bad

investment.

you know,

so that

even

as

Neanderthal

a type

as

President

Pinocchio

is willing

isn't that

a cruel

thing

for me

to say

is

waking up

to the

fact

that

it just

don't pay.

But you know,

we have a lot

of problems.

it isn't going

to be the

millennium

even if we

achieve a

massive cutback

in strategic

weapons.

There's still

going to be

propaganda,

sexism,

starvation,

inability to

correctly manage

resources.

These things

will plague us

unto

the last

syllable

of recorded

time

unless we

begin

to undergo

this kind

of

intellectual

cohesion,

the compression

of our

intent,

the

recognition

of our

group-mindedness

as a

feeling,

as a

will

that can

act

in the

historical

context.

And to my

mind,

the psychedelics

have always

existed

in the

plants to

promote

precisely this.

There were

not language

using tool

making tribes

of human

beings in

the absence

of hallucinogenic

plants.

The

hallucinogenic

plants create

the context

for integrated

organizational

activity.

This

has been

going on

for at

least

15,

20,000

years.

The

problem

is that

through

a series

of factors

which we

needn't go

into in

depth here,

but factors

which impinged

on European

civilization

particularly,

civilizations

were able

to evolve

outside of

the noetic

input from

Gaia,

outside of

the biological

radio that

envelops the

planet and

inputs into

balanced

tribal societies

with functioning

shamanic

institutions.

In Europe,

somehow the

chain was

broken.

The link

back to

the elder

gods and

goddesses and

to the

biological

organization of

human society

before history

was lost.

And this

curious kind

of ungoverned

intellectual

development

occurred,

ungoverned

in the literal

sense of a

machine which

slips from the

control of

its governor.

And in

that situation,

materialism,

which is an

insupportable

philosophy

actually, if

you have an

openness, a

sensitivity, any

kind of

cultivated feminine

response to

nature, it is

utterly impossible.

Recall that the

Cartesian, the

point of view of

Cartesian

materialism pushed

Descartes to

actually claiming in

public debate that

animals were

machines.

He said they

feel nothing.

The apparent

display of

pain is

simply something

which we

project onto

them because

we alone have

a soul.

And Descartes,

you see, himself

had not gone over

completely to

materialism.

He believed

there was a

human soul, but

it came

tangential at

only one point

to the human

body.

Somewhere in

the pineal

gland, there

was a switch

and the soul

was running

things like a

telephone switch

board operator

from there.

Well, very

shortly after

Descartes, his

followers just

said, well, we

don't need this.

This soul

concept was just

a thing to stay

on the right

side of the

church and we

don't need it.

And they cut

it loose.

Well, once you

cut that loose,

then you have

all kinds of

permission.

You have

permission to

rape and

exploit nature,

permission which

had already been

reinforced for

Western man by

the New Testament,

but now raised

to the nth degree

by the assumption

that nature is

utterly without

soul.

And this

philosophy persisted

well into the

1950s.

The essence of

Jean-Paul Sartre's

existentialism can

be summed up in

the statement

nature is

mute.

That was

Sartre's

position on

nature.

How many

people thinking

themselves

existentialists and

hanging out in

coffee houses

actually ever

worked through

what the

consequences of

the existential

point of view

was?

Nature is not

mute.

You really have

to have worked

yourself into a

weird place.

to believe

that, you

know.

In fact,

nature is

entirely

something else.

Nature is

communication

because nature

is psyche.

This is what

we haven't

understood.

We have

somehow talked

ourselves into

the belief that

into the natural

world of Eden

God came

and made

man and

from man

woman.

and that

men and

women are

of so

ontologically

a different

level than

the rest of

nature that

no conclusion

about us

can be drawn

from an

examination of

nature.

Nothing could,

I mean,

it's impossible

for me to

understand how

this idea

persists and

has such

momentum in the

20th century

theory where

hierarchy

theory has

very, very

clearly

explicated the

notion of

the linkage of

higher order

systems to

subsystems that

are physically

more simple.

So you see,

really what we

have is a

kind of fractal

universe.

in fact,

it's not

greatly different

from the

alchemical view

of the 16th

century where

people said

as above,

so below.

The microcosm

is a reflection

of the

macrocosm.

What this is

really saying

is that at

the level of

a planet,

you get a

certain level

of organization

and spectrum

of peripheral

effects.

the same

thing such

as self

reflection,

self

regulation,

intent,

goal

projection,

steering toward

perceived

goals.

You get

the same

kind of

thing on

the level

of a

society,

can be

a beehive

or a

herd of

antelope

or whatever,

and you

get it in

the human

individual

and the

human

society.

So,

really what

is to

be seen

is that

we are

the

cutting

edge

of

becoming.

We are

not a

thing

apart.

We are

a unique

level

of a

multi-leveled

organism,

and we

have been

called

forth

out of

nature,

by nature,

for a

purpose.

And what

is our

task as

individuals,

I think,

is to

discover what

that purpose

is,

and then

to align

ourselves

with it

in a way

which allows

the plan,

whatever it

is,

to most

smoothly

unfold.

Well,

what it

seems to

be is a

progressive

invocation

of

spirit,

the theme

with which I

began the

evening,

that through

language,

through

abstraction,

through

magical

invocation,

the

formulation

of

religions,

the

projection

of

art,

the

field

phenomena,

the

phenomena

which are

diffuse in

space and

time,

and not

easily

located,

are

forcing or

intruding their

way into

three-dimensional

space and

time.

if you

were an

extraterrestrial

in a

starship in

orbit around

this planet,

what you

would see

looking down

is a

gene swarm.

The

species that

seem to

us to be

animal forms

extremely stable

in time are

actually highly

permeable

membranes

over

millennia and

tens of

millennia,

with genes

crossing over,

moving around,

and being

basically

obedient to

the expression

of some

kind of

teleological

form,

and it

was the

concern of

19th century

biology to

eliminate

teleology,

to eliminate

purpose and

directedness,

but it's

very hard to

avoid the

impression of

some kind

of

attractor

ahead of

this planet

embedded in

its history

and somehow

channeling

everything

toward it

so that

the progressive

acceleration of

human society,

of information

production,

of communication,

the proliferation

of languages,

natural and

synthetic,

all of these

things are

not something

going on in

the human

domain and

somehow

sealed from

the general

state of

nature,

but are

in fact

part of

the general

state of

nature,

and the

human

experience

or the

human animal

as the

carrier of

this

catalytic

process,

this speeding

up and

accelerating a

process on

the surface of

the planet

is not

sealed from

nature,

but the

leading edge,

the leading

edge of

a process

on this

planet.

Now,

teleology was

so antithetical

to 19th

century science

because they

were trying to

pull away

from the

telos of

medieval

scholastic

philosophy.

They didn't

want God,

these 19th

century English

atheists,

Darwin and

Lyle and

that crowd.

However,

we have

come through

the so-called

death of God

and the

elimination of

a theological

raison d'etre

for the

universe,

and now

we're looking

more at

a telos

which we

would

operationally

define,

rather than

define it

based on

ancient

revelation,

which was

the previous

method was

the older

the book,

the truer

it must be,

and the

Bible is the

oldest book,

and therefore

it must be

true.

This is

what

Merci Eliade

calls the

nostalgia

for paradise,

paradigm of

time.

We are

in that,

it can

now be

seen that

there is

in fact

some kind

of transcendental

object,

and it's

best to

try and

describe it

phenomenologically.

We don't know

what it is,

but we do

know that

it's an

enormous

attractor

of some

sort,

and we

are in

the field

of attraction,

and by we

I mean all

life on

the planet

is being

drawn in

to this

nodal

point,

and it

is possible

to anticipate

it through

the psychedelic

experience,

because apparently

the natural

and the

linguistic

world

are worlds

which are

organized along

the principle

of fractal

curves.

fractal

curves are

recently

discovered

mathematical

objects,

not all of

them are

recently

discovered,

some were

known as

late as

the late

19th century,

but most

have been

discovered

using computers

in the last

10 or 15

years,

and they

are self

similar curves

such that

when you

take a

subset of

one of

these

mathematical

objects,

it is

found to

have the

whole

pattern

embedded

in it.

the Fourier

transforms

that

describe

holograms

are

these

kind

of

things,

coastlines,

mountain

ranges,

data of

all sorts

when analyzed

in a certain

way is

found to

be

fractal.

Apparently

the world

is a kind

of vast

spiral

fractal

that is

achieving

greater and

greater

closure

with

itself,

and we

experience

this

density

of

closure

and

this

compression

ism

as

the

spectrum

of

effects

which

we

call

human

evolution,

human

history,

emergence

of high

technology,

the present

moment,

the rush

toward

apocalypse.

The most

intense

moments

that the

universe

has ever

known

are

the

next

seconds,

and

beyond

that

lies

still

more

intense

moments.

Novelty

as a

kind

of

generalized

paradigm

of

the

compression

of

connectedness

throughout

the

cosmos

is

accelerating

moment

by

moment

in the

rocks,

in the

trees,

in the

stars,

and

in us.

And so

what we

call

trendlessly

fluctuating,

that's

their

model

of

the

world.

You

get

order

at

the

atomic

level,

order

at

the

biological

level,

order,

and suddenly

you reach

human

beings,

trendlessly

fluctuating.

It's

as though

we were

affected

by the

Brownian

movement

of

random

particles,

and yet

somehow

out of

less

fluctuation

of

human

history.

Actually,

this is

nonsense.

It's

simply

that

there

has

never

been

a

thorough

going

theory

of

history.

However,

now

we are

ready

for

them

because

these

wave

mechanical

ideas,

the

notions

of

closure,

Sheldrake's

idea about

the

presence

of

the

past,

the

way

in

which

the

past

drives

the

present,

all

of

and

densification

of

time.

And

this

is

what

is

experienced

in

the

psychedelic

experience.

Really,

Whitehead said

of

Dove

Gray

that

it

haunts

time

like

a

ghost.

Well,

I

think

that

the

compression

of

the

three

dimensional

universe

at

the

end

of

time

haunts

time

like

a

ghost.

It's

the

cosmic

giggle.

Hear

a

shaman.

They're

an

ecstatic

poet.

And

they're

the

tiny

ripple

that

is

simply

a

congruent

coincidence

in

the

life

of

a

single

individual.

Robert

Anton

Wilson

called

this

the

cosmic

giggle.

It's

when

something

protrudes

through

the

forward

flowing

momentum

of

rational

casuistry

and

causes

it

to

flow

around

it

and

eddy

and

churn

and

then

you

see

through

for

a

moment

and

you

say

well

what

is

it

there

was

a

plottedness

for

a

moment

there

was

the

hand

of

the

maker

there

but

now

I

don't

see

it

anymore

that

is

the

going

behind

the

veil

that

is

the

seeing

into

the

structure

of

being

that

lies

behind

the

conventionalized

languages

that's

why

coincidence

is so

often

reported

as an

accompanying

phenomenon

for the

psychedelic

experience

because

really

syntax

is

dissolved

and

syntax

is a

filter

for

this

sense

of

eminent

connectedness

and

when

the

syntax

goes

the

eminent

connectedness

flows

in

then

it's a

question

of

what

you

do

with

it

if

it

causes

you

to

believe

that

you

are

going

to

save

the

world

then

you

haven't

gotten

the

message

right

that's

inflation

and

inflation

is very

bad

it

drives

up

interest

rates

so

if

you

get

that

kind

of

a

take

on

it

you

are

misusing

it

nevertheless

the

most

advanced

yogic

techniques

that

are

known

are

the

techniques

of

the

so-called

Anuttatara

yoga

tantra

the

tantric

yogic

techniques

and

there

the

prescription

is

it

says

in

Herbert

Gunther's

Treasures

of the

Tibetan

Middle

Way

you

should

think

of

your

house

as

a

resplendent

palace

think

of

your

utensils

as

made

of

beaten

gold

and

think

of

yourself

as

having

a

body

made

of

living

mercury

what

this

is

in

western

psychological

terms

is

an

invitation

to

inflation

but

if

it

is

approached

with

the

right

analysis

of

mind

basically

that

there is

nothing

but

body

mind

and

there

is

no

particularization

in

time

and

space

then

there

is

no

inflationary

feedback

into

the

ego

and

this

is

the

kind

of

opportunity

that

the

psychedelic

opens

up

it

is

I

have

said

many

times

quoting

Plato

time

is

the

moving

image

of

eternity

time

is

the

moving

image

of

eternity

what

the

shaman

does

is

he

or

she

leaves

the

mundane

plane

and

in

Iliad's

phrase

is

able

to

trigger

a

rupture

of

plane

and

the

rupture

of

plane

carries

the

shamanizing

person

into

another

dimension

literally

another

dimension

and

in

that

other

dimension

all

of

time

and

space

is

beheld

as

James

Joyce

said

in

a

nutshell

and

in

the

nutshell

of

time

and

space

everything

is

seen

to be

a part

and

a

aesthetically

pleasing

integral

necessary

part

of the

transcendental

object

in

what

this

universe

is

a

lower

dimensional

slice

of

that

same

transcendental

object

well

I guess

what impels

my career

and what

I really

can't

get over

is

that

what

I'm

saying

to

you

is

true

you know

that

I mean

we

sit

here

we

gather

here

and

even

though

we're

talking

about

this

extremely

far

out

thing

still

all

the

forms

are

in

place

I'm

here

you're

there

everybody

sits

on

their

ass

nobody

sits

on

their

head

it

all

it

all

appears

fairly

mundane

how

can

it

be

that

what

we

are

talking

about

is

the

nearby

presence

of

an

impossibly

alien

dimension

now

if

that

alien

dimension

had

been

reported

back

to

us

by

a

robot

probe

dropped

into

the

methane

oceans

of

Europa

we

would

be

all

hot

to

go

there

to

organize

a

billion

dollar

expedition

and a

year

plan

and

go

out

there

and

find

out

what

is

happening

the

amazing

thing

is

that

you know

each one

of us

in our

own

living

room

can

be

this

Magellan

can

penetrate

into

these

dimensions

it

really

seems

quite

freaky

to

me

freaky

to

me

that

such

a

thing

is

possible

and

yet

that

we

are

such

monkeys

or

so

culturally

constrained

or

so

blind

that

this

is

not

what

we're

all

talking

about

all

the

time

and

by

we

all

I

mean

all

five

billion

of

us

on

this

planet

because

we

appear

to be

being

pushed

down

a

featureless

corridor

toward

a

furnace

and

yet

if you

would

notice

there

are

all

these

doors

along

the

side

of

the

so-called

featureless

corridor

and

nobody

seems

to

have

cognized

that

you

can

just

open

these

doors

and

walk

through

and

short

circuit

the

inevitability

of

planetary

disaster

amazing

because

we

pride

ourselves

on

our

commitment

that

science

allows us

to look

anywhere

inspect

any

possibility

our

models

are not

dictated

to us

by the

church

or by

government

or by

industry

when in

fact

they are

dictated

to us

by

the

church

government

industry

mammalian

organization

and so

we are

no better

off

than all

those

benighted

people

in those

previous

ages

where we

look back

upon them

and say

well

they must

have been

so limited

by their

worldview

because

they didn't

know

about

quantum

physics

and ketamine

and Michael

Jackson

and cable

TV

and all

of these

things

but the

fact of the

matter is

that unless

we push

through

culture

to nature

we too

are dupes

we too

are somehow

being sold

a line

and

And yet nature is there outside of the cities.

You know, you drive an hour and a half from where we're sitting and you're in the high desert.

And it is demon-haunted, paleolithic space.

It holds the same promise for us as moderns that it held for the Luiseno Indians

who were initiated into it, into their shamanic institution,

before the conquest, before history.

So nature is the final arbiter of cultural forms.

This is what Taoism understood.

And this is what I believe the psychedelic plant thing is pushing us toward.

It was not immediately apparent that this was so.

Because as I said at the beginning of this talk in the 60s,

the psychedelics came out of the laboratory.

And only the most scholarly of the trippers bothered to study the natural origins

and the anthropological and ethnographic context in which these things were coming from,

like the Ellicinian Mysteries or the Mexican Morning Glory Mysteries

or the Wasson discovered Mushroom Mysteries.

But if we can somehow link a respect to nature, a sensitivity to Gaia,

a valuing of ourselves,

a complete placing of our own feelings

and our own perceptions in the forefront of trustworthy sources

and the psychedelics integrated into our lives,

then there will be a tremendous cultural impact, a tremendous reorientation

because the message that nature is trying to give,

the steering signal on the human species,

comes through the accessing of this shamanic dimension outside of history.

Revolutions are made by tiny percentages of the populations

in which those revolutions are wrought.

The important thing is clarity and connectedness

and a clear understanding of who one's antecedents are,

what the source antecedents are,

and what the target goal is.

New Age is a pale label for what is going on.

New Age sounds too much like new Nixon, new Reagan,

new retreaded everything.

What is happening is an archaic revival,

a harking back to cultural models

10,000 to 25,000 years old

because the profane fall into history is actually ending.

The way the fall into history ends

is with the progeny of Adam,

the human race,

recovering

the control of the human form,

the control of the human soul,

the ability to turn ourselves into whatever we wish to be.

This comes through the union of imagination,

through understanding,

into nature,

the invocation of the dream.

This is what the Australian Aboriginal Society is talking about.

This is what the dream time is.

Finnegan's Wake says,

upnient, prospector,

you warp your woof and spread your wings,

sprout all your worth.

This upnient,

this end of time,

this birth into angelhood,

lies ahead of us,

but it is really part of the archaic return

to the paradisiacal mode before history.

The psychedelic hallucinogens are the catalysts.

The minds that they touch

become the catalysts

within the society in general.

And from there,

the fashions,

the social forms,

the kinds of conscientiousness,

the innate decency

that is called forth

by the authenticity

of the experience

is what will transform us.

I mean,

in the same way that

an affair

can become a love affair

if there is mutual authenticity

of behavior

rather than simply a kind of flirting,

flirtation.

In that same way,

our affair with Gaia

can be a love affair

if we can summon

to ourselves

the vision

to make it so.

And it means really being aware

of the vastness of the options,

of the precipice

that late 20th century historical human beings stand on.

We are about to leave for the stars.

This is what is happening on this planet.

A species prepares to depart for the stars.

To do that,

energy has to be marshaled.

The lessons of the long march

out of the trees

and to this moment

have to be collated,

sifted,

refined,

concentrated.

That is the alchemical gold.

The historical process

is the story

of a prodigal son,

of a wandering

and a return.

The return

is meaningless

without the wandering.

The wandering

has no meaning

unless its fruits

are given

birth

after the return.

And I think that

the last thousand years

has been

the prodigal journey

into matter.

And it ends

finally with

modern pharmacology,

modern ethnobotany,

discovering

in the jungles

of the Amazon

and the mountains

of Mexico

the body

of Eros,

Osiris,

you know,

fallen since the time

of the flood

but awaiting

the re-emergence

of the cognizant

human connection.

That is

what

the archaic revival

holds out.

It's actually

our salvation.

I mean,

I think I'm fairly

hard-nosed.

I don't see

any hope

for us.

I don't see

any hope

for institutional

transformation

unless it is done

with an awareness

of the transcendental object.

and the religions

that we inherit

from the past

are so screwed up

that the only way

to validate

and empower

the transcendental object

is by self-experience,

by direct accessing.

And people say,

well,

but can't it be done

on the natch?

No,

it can't be done

on the natch,

generally speaking,

because if it could be,

it would have been done.

I mean,

there are plenty

of elder societies

on this planet

who have the wrap

down,

you know,

but look at the kind

of societies

that they erect.

I mean,

horrifyingly

dehumanized societies

seem to be

the breeding place

of the most sublime

religions there are.

So,

no,

I think it has to be,

there has to be

a humbling.

We have to bow

our heads

and abandon

the dualism

that we inherit

out of our,

out of Christianity

and science

and the whole

Judeo-Christian

Islamic shtick.

We have to realize

that it requires

a symbiotic partner.

It's a hand-in-hand

effort.

And if we are willing

to take the hand

which nature offers

in the strange form

of the alien

vegetation spirit

from the stars

that seems to

infuse us

on plant

hallucinogens,

then we will

go forward

into a bright

new world.

It's a partnership.

It's a challenge.

It's the only game

in the planetary

village.

and I appreciate

you're letting me

share with you

my notion of it

this evening.

Thank you.

We're going to

take about

a 10 or 15

minute break

and then do

question and

answers.

There are a bunch

of handouts,

catalogs,

events coming up,

stuff on tables

at the back

of the room

which I urge

you to take

a look at.

Yeah?

We're going

to start

very quickly

because

the philosophical

society

has asked

that we

wind ourselves

down.

I wanted

to call

your attention

to a couple

of things

before I

take questions.

Psilocybin,

the magic

mushroom

grower's

guide,

is back

in print

by popular

demand

and

at health

food stores

you buy

agar.

But I do

technical

consulting

for a hefty

hourly fee.

But this

can be gotten

at Bodhi

Tree,

it's longer,

it's on better

paper,

it has more

drawings,

it's a state

of the art

as we

could make

it.

It has

brought

freedom,

prosperity

and enlightenment

to tens

of thousands.

We have

not to be

outdone

by Tim

Leary,

we have

a piece

of software.

So if

you own

a 2E,

2C

or 2GS

machine

from Apple,

why you

can run

this time

wave software

which in

my opinion

is actually

my best

trick

and I

will be

writing

and talking

more and

more about

the wave

of time

because in

Hawaii

finally

developing

this software

gave me

a real

grip on

it.

Eventually

we will

market

this

for

Macintosh

and IBM

compatible

machinery

but right

now it's

in the

2E2C

line.

also I'd

like to

mention

that

Kat and

I will

be at

Esalen

next weekend

so if

any of

you are

true

gluttons

for

punishment

you can

join us

up there

for

two and

a half

days

and it

should be

lots of

fun.

That will

wind this

all up.

And before

I take

questions I

want to

again remind

you of

Botanical

Dimensions.

It is a

tax exempt

non-profit.

We do

need

donations.

All the

money that

is given

goes very

directly into

visibly

manifesting

the

Botanical

Garden

in Hawaii

collecting

the

plants

building

a

computer

database

and

basically

support

not even

supporting

but

keeping

a

Peruvian

collector

in the

field

since I'm

most familiar

with Amazonian

botany

why that's

where we've

concentrated.

Well usually

questions are

the most

interesting.

How is

this to be

done?

Are you

going to

hand a

microphone?

Do people

come up?

Stand up?

Stand up

and speak

loudly.

In the

middle,

in the

back.

Yes.

Yes,

parents.

I was

wondering if

you could

share with

this your

ideas on

what spirit

is.

Well I

think it's

my notion

of it is

that the

way we

experience it

it's an

informing

understanding.

It's on

one level

it's

simply

appropriate

activity

you know

knowing

how to

do

everything

because

it is

the

Tao of

the

ancestors.

In other

words you

can sort

of see

yourself

as the

most recent

version of

your family's

genes

and in

all

traditional

activities

there's

millions

of years

of

morphogenetic

fields

stored up

for how

you

pick

something

up

how you

sit

something

down.

So in

the immediate

sense

the

manifestation

of spirit

is appropriate

activity.

What it

really is

I think

is some

kind of

hidden

how-ness

that makes

everything

be as

it is

and that's

what the

spirit is.

In other

words science

describes

the possible

things

that can

happen.

Science is

the study

of

possibilities

and what

nobody has

ever answered

is how

is it

that out

of the

entire

class

of

possibilities

certain

things

actually

undergo

the

formality

of

occurring.

Somehow

they are

selected

out of

the class

of the

possible

and they

become

the

actual.

Well

the thing

which

mediates

the coming

into being

of the

actual

out of

the

class

of the

possible

is what

I think

the spirit

is.

It is

the

invisible

hand

if you

will.

It is

the

guiding

force.

It is

the

invisible

landscape

over

which

becoming

flows

like a

river.

It

defines.

It

creates.

It is

this

telos

that I

mentioned.

This

attractor

at the

end

of

time.

Other

yes

back

there.

Yes

sir

has there

been

any

research

that you

know of

in

relation

to

electron

spin

resonance

recently

since

the

landscape

and

secondly

can

triptomine

act as a

mechanism

for release

of genetically

stored

material

through that

ESR

with an

intercalation

of

triptomine

into the

neural

DNA.

Is that

a genetic

mechanism

for

racial

new

well in

the

invisible

landscape

that's

what we

were

suggesting

and the

invisible

landscape

was

published

in

since

then

there's

been a

lot of

work

with

NMR

and

ESR

none

of it

which

overthrows

this

idea

it's a

real

question

about

where is

the

epigenetic

data

stored

in other

words

all the

memories

that you

accumulate

during

your

life

die

with

you

your

genetic

material

you can

pass

on

at least

half

to your

children

and so

during the

life of

the

individual

this

epigenetic

material

experience

anecdotes

memories

anticipations

how

where is

it

molecularly

stored

or is

it

molecularly

stored

in the

invisible

landscape

we were

suggesting

that

thought

is

actually

a

naturally

occurring

ESR

readout

of

portions

of the

DNA

which

were not

associated

with

genetic

expression

but which

were

somehow

like

write

writeable

memory

in a

computer

the

epigenetic

stuff

was being

stored

there

there's

no

data

to

overthrow

that

notion

that I'm

aware

of

I'm

not

I don't

cling

to

it

as

strongly

as I

once

did

allowing

of

spirit

into

the

scientific

model

of

the

world

and

I

now

think

of

the

brain

as

a

receiver

of

the

phenomenon

of

consciousness

that

I

don't

believe

that

consciousness

is

generated

in the

brain

any

more

than

the

television

programs

are

made

inside

my

TV

you know

the box

is too

small

you know

that

I mean

it just

obviously

is

too

small

I

mean

it

might

not

be

if you

didn't

have

the

psychedelic

experience

once

you

splice

that

and

say

well

it's

taking

you

know

ten

high

sixteen

megabytes

of

memory

to

store

this

database

so

it

just

doesn't

I

just

don't

think

it

would

be

done

like

that

I

discover

right

already

somehow

present

in the

environment

it

is

the

appetition

for

being

that

drives

organic

evolution

into

this

kind

of

dance

of

relatedness

to

this

other

thing

which

it

can

transduce

from

another

dimension

that's

why

you

know

if

you

take

consciousness

expansion

the

phrase

or

consciousness

enhancement

seriously

it

must

be

very

important

because

consciousness

is

after

all

what

it's

all

made

out

of

that's

the

name

of

the

game

so

this

transducing

of

higher

states

of

consciousness

then

seems

very

important

even

at

that

it

will

be

necessary

to

elucidate

the

physical

mechanism

whether

it's

ESR

NMR

or

what

it

is

an

interesting

sort

of

opportunity

for

psychedelic

research

you

see

the

amazing

thing

about

psychedelics

is

not

only

that

they

are

illegal

and

restricted

from

the

so-called

ordinary

person

but

they

are

restricted

to

scientific

research

nobody

can

do

research

on

psychedelics

I

mean

it

is

professionally

and

practically

impossible

to do

it

well

there's

no

other

area

where

this

is

true

I

mean

science

probes

obscenely

into

the

most

private

areas

of

our

sex

lives

our

social

lives

our

dream

lives

monkeys

are

smashed

against

walls

to study

I

mean

there's

no

limit

to

it

and

yet

there's

this

total

hands-off

attitude

toward

the

psychedelics

so

an

interesting

break

in

this

front

is

the

sudden

need

because

of

computer

assisted

tomography

cat

scanning

the need

for

compounds

which

locate

in

certain

highly

defined

parts

of

the

brain

if

you

could

tritiate

these

drug

compounds

and make

them

radioactive

you could

make

very nice

pictures

of

various

parts

of

the

brain

so

now

suddenly

there

is

an

interest

in

all

this

old

psychedelic

research

about

the

receptor

site

and

location

densities

of

molecules

in

the

brain

so

we

may

be

on

the

brink

of

an

era

where

to

have

a

psilocybin

trip

in

the

on

for

a

cat

scan

at

general

hospital

in

the

morning

someone

else

I

have

a couple

questions

I guess

I'd like

to hear

just about

the

state

of

these

plants

that you

feel

that you

need

to

sort

of

rescue

them

from

the

Amazon

and

bring

them

into

Hawaii

and

how

many

have

preserved

that the

cultures

the

indigenous

rainforest

cultures

are more

and more

disrupted

and there's a lot

of conservation

and big

organizations

raising money

to preserve

the rainforests

and to get

large tracts

of rainforests

set aside

there is no

awareness

or social

conscience

about the

fact that

the presence

of capitalism

in the

Amazon

is totally

disrupting

tribal

human culture

so these

people

who have

been tribal

for thousands

of years

the men

are just

totally walking

out on the

traditional

lifestyle

and taking

their canoe

a hundred

miles down

river

and signing

on at

sawmills

and on

oil

drilling

crews

and this

sort of

thing

and so

the consequences

of this

is

that far

more rapidly

than the

rainforest

itself

is being

destroyed

the

human

cultural

interaction

with the

rainforest

is being

lost

and thousands

of species

of medicinal

plants

antibiotics

immune

stimulators

halucinogens

analgesics

all these

different kinds

of plants

this data

this lore

is being

lost

and when

you realize

that you know

eighty percent

of the drugs

sold in the

United States

are in fact

traceable

to plant

sources

and in spite

of the

vaunted

success

of so-called

strategic

pharmacology

where you

just

think up

the drug

you think

you need

and make

it in the

laboratory

it really

it's still

a lot

of the

of what

drug companies

do

is screen

for plants

and cash

in on

folklore

basically

so it's

important to

preserve these

plants

and the

lore about

them

because you

see I mean

like it's

really hard

to explain

how some

of these

plants have

been discovered

for instance

in the case

of ayahuasca

ayahuasca

is a

visionary

shamanic

brew

that happens

to be made

of two

two different

plants

vanisteriopsis

copy

supplies an

MAO

inhibitor

and

cicotria

viridis

supplies

DMT

either plant

by itself

is inert

and you

have to

know

to brew

the

wood

and bark

of one

with the

leaves

of the

other

and you

have to

know

that it's

in a

certain

proportion

and you

have to

know

to concentrate

it to a

certain

degree

well

when you

realize

that

a

square

mile

of

Amazonian

rainforest

can have

120,000

species

of plants

on it

I mean

that's in

contrast to

when you

go into

the

Sierras

a square

mile

of

forest

may have

species

of plants

in it

so

it's an

ultra-complex

environment

and human

beings

who knows

by what

means

I mean

it is to

my mind

that the

vegetable

spirits

lead them

to it

have

sussed out

all this

knowledge

that is

you know

a seamless

web of

understanding

about nature

and so

this is

what we're

trying to

preserve

in Hawaii

I think

ayahuasca

is a good

example

it has

tremendous

potential

for

psychiatry

it is

a purgative

it kills

intestinal

parasites

it appears

in agar

in slant

culture

to kill

the

germany

in the

united

states

to the

outback

of indonesia

where malaria

is raging

you could

simply

send in

thousands

of cuttings

of this

plant

people could

grow it

as a

dooryard

plant

take it

as a

tea

on a

weekly

basis

and

malaria

would be

held

at bay

there are

over

plants

in a

recent

review

article

that I

saw

known

from

Africa

that appear

to be

immune

stimulating

plants

well

god

this should

have

everybody

on the

edge

of their

seat

the

breakdown

of the

immune

system

and the

whole

AIDS

related

complex

and all

of that

it

turns

out

that

adaptations

to plants

in traditional

cultures

have

conferred

or have

stimulated

the immune

system

and conferred

certain kinds

of immunity

well then

this could be

the basis

for a

drug strategy

of some

sort

and so

on

so this

is the

kind of

preservational

work

that we're

doing

there

yes

against

the wall

a few

days ago

you were

on KPFK

with Roy

and you

mentioned

briefly

San Pedro

that's

what you

said

you were

talking

about

the

water

plant

San Pedro

cactus

could you

just

give me

briefly

a background

maybe a

parallel

between

the experience

or your

experience

if you

had

it

with

San Pedro

to that

of

psilocybin

mushrooms

because when

I tried

San Pedro

cactus

mixing it

with vanilla

ice cream

didn't work

well I

don't know

what work

means

but it

must have

startled

your

stomach

it was

pretty

vile

well I

don't really

know that

much about

San Pedro

I've never

gotten around

to it

I know

a person

who swears

by it

but they

have a

elaborate way

of cooking

it up

in a

pressure

cooker

mescaline

which

and

halamine

and

halamine

and

methyl

mescaline

all of

these

things

are

occurring

in

that

plant

it's

an

amphetamine

related

thing

it

tends

to be

pretty

rough

of

the

of

the

natural

hallucinogens

the

really

the

big

ones

as I

think

of

them

mescaline

is

the

harshest

an

operating

dose

is

considered

to be

actually

close

to

a

gram

milligrams

which

one

way

that

pharmacologists

judge

the

toxicity

of

a

drug

is

by

how

much

it

takes

to

get

you

off

and

the

less

it

takes

then

the

more

benign

the

drug

is

thought

to

be

so

on

that

scale

mescaline

doesn't

do

too

well

but

my

experience

with

mescaline

has

been

with

peyote

which

I

gather

is

somewhat

similar

and

it's

been

interesting

it's

hard

to

take

enough

to

really

reach

the

deep

you

have

to

water without it really reacting on your stomach it's not the cleanest way to go I think that you

know having looked at these things in South America and in many places in my experience the mushroom

just is it I mean other things have other aspects to it and bring it in but the mushroom is an

extraordinary organism it's like it's engineered for that purpose and I've spoken about how it was

almost strewn in the path of developing primitive man in Africa because it was associated with the

manure of cattle and on the in the ungulate herds of Africa evolving on the belt at the same time that

the human animal was evolving a complex pack signaling language and so forth it just set the

stage it seems to me it was the catalyst I really believe that we are in a symbiotic relationship with

these plants and that the mushroom by virtue of being global in its distribution is probably a

major slice relationally of that pie and in other in other words that the peculiar turn that evolution

took in our species the reinforcing of self-reflective consciousness and the reinforcing of linguistic

signaling has to do with the presence in the human diet in that early stage of these mushrooms it's known

that the mushroom that low amounts of psilocybin subthreshold doses of psilocybin increase visual acuity

well it isn't hard to figure then that if evolutionary pressure is operating on a hunting species a pack

hunting species that visual acuity is going to be at a premium and if small amounts of psilocybin in the food

chain increase increase increase visual acuity those animals will be selected and survive well then their

habit of using of accepting the mushroom as a food lays them open for this linguistic synergy this symbol

forming capacity then and then the the deeper more ecstatic experiences with psilocybin which are then

projected onto the mushroom onto the cattle become the basis for a kind of cattle goddess mushroom

a cycle of a hierophany the discovery of the tremendum i mean almost as though in the scene in 2001 where the apes

encounter the monolith it was precisely that except that the monolith was a mushroom it was a superbly genetically engineered

omnivorous organism that could insert itself into the ecosystem of a planet and begin to coax

an effect out of a mammal that it had a relationship to and this effect coaxed out of the mammal is

is this relationship to this higher dimensional wave form which we call the spirit or mind which is apparently

you know that's what it's all about why this is happening is not clear i mean in the mushroom book i suggested that

it was because there is some awareness of planetary finitude that the mushroom actually thinks on so large a scale

that it is using us to make machines for it to perpetuate it throughout the nearby galaxy that it is aware of the finite nature of our star

star we don't know we don't know we don't plan yet on those kind of scales we're an infant race

very obstreperous and the mushroom said to me once

if you don't have a plan you become part of somebody else's plan one of its slightly more paranoid

but it is good i think to have a plan and to have allies and the mushroom is very contemptuous of the notion of

of humans having human allies says you know for one human being to think it could gain enlightenment from another

so it really believes in you know hierarchical levels and trickle-down gnosis which i'm not sure how i view that

i believe all secrets should be told and that we should just lay our cards on the table

but maybe i don't have as many cards as they do so we play by their rules on the aisle

you're a wonderful convincing speaker and i'm sure nobody hears that in case they do not want to bear witness

and testimony to what you're saying

um

it's absolutely true

that there's this intelligence that wants to connect to us and that we won't need to make a record to connect to us

because as you say it is extremely informative

and uh

you're saying um

that one way we can do this is through the psychedelic experience which i agree with

but i'd like you to talk a little bit about the western tradition of the mysteries which involves ritual

and using ritual in order to maintain uh

to uh uh

stimulate

maintain contact with this nature spirit which uh i might add is

uh is a spirit that's just bursting at the seams right now to connect to us and inform us and talk to us

and help us

yes

well um

um

Mersiliad talked about the difference between sacral and profane time

and he said the way you leave history

is you sacralize a space

and you sacralize a space through ritual

you

you abolish the profane constraints of space and time the here and now

and

you

imagine that you are what he what he called

in ilio tempore

in the time before

in the paradisical time before the fall

this goes back to what i said about the anuttatara yoga tantra

the imagining

of these titanic god-like states of mind

as a ground for being

yes

i would never have thought

i mean i've been pushed to my

position by my experience

i mean i'm amazed at what i have to say

based on what i've experienced

because i never thought it would be this way

you know i came up a whole different way

i was a marxist

and an existentialist

and all of these

things

and it was as you testified

it's the pure evidence

i mean you can

you can convince yourself

intellectually that something is true

but it's only in the

in the

embrace of the tremendum

that it just sweeps over you

how true it is

and

as far as the difference between establishing

these connections through psychedelics

and through ritual

i think deep psychedelic tripping

is something that you don't do very often

simply because each time

it's so rich

it takes a long time

to process this stuff

it's much better to go deeper

seldom

than

to diddle with it in the other ways

that people do

i mean it often seems to me that

it's not even so much a matter of

of

you know

spreading the good word

and turning it into a mass movement

it might be much more interesting

if simply the people who were already in

on the secret

did it

more conscientiously

and more deeply

although

i hasten to add that you shouldn't do too much

you should never do

more than about

six or seven grams

of mushrooms

i say that

because i keep hearing stories about

people who think

going deeply means

doing a lot

and they do amounts

which stand my hair on end

i mean in the past month

traveling around

i've heard stories

where i just say

you know

and people are crazy

you know

say

i couldn't remember whether you said

five grams or five ounces

so to be safe i did an ounce and a half

you know

i mean

it's important to

it's important to get there

granted

but it's important to come back

oh lord

yeah

in your talks

you

said something about the transcendental object

did you go into more detail about that

the way i imagine that history works

is

well first of all let me say how the way

the people i disagree with think it works

and then

you had cooling

and development

of

molecular atomic and molecular and organic

and ultimately cultural

and all

systems and ultimately technological systems

and

this will go on indefinitely

down unto the heat death of the universe

and the development of life

and of culture

has nothing to do

with the physical

astrophysical level of things

it's sort of ancillary and a mistake

my view is somewhat different

it's that

if we have to have a singularity

in our cosmology

in other words

it's so hard to figure out

how you get from nothing to something

no philosophical school

has ever been able to do it

without some kind of singularity

so if we're going to have a singularity

in our system

let us try to make it as

logically palatable as possible

so how to do that

it's not logically palatable to me

to believe

that the universe

sprang from nothing

in a single instant

seems to me

if you believe that

you're set up to believe anything

right

i mean isn't that it

well if they'll believe this

what wouldn't you believe

so how about this instead

that the universe

its origins

are a mystery

and cannot be determined

but as we look at its history

the history of it that is available to our inspection

what we see is increasing complexity

ending in ourselves

and our civilization so far as we know

well then if you're going to have a singularity

I think of a singularity as a kind of phase transition

you know Ilya Prigozhin talks about how

a chemical system will suddenly and spontaneously migrate

to a higher state of order

well that's sort of how I think of this thing

it is capable of migrating to a higher state of order

so

if we're going to have a singularity

isn't it more likely that it will emerge out of a situation of vast complexity

than a situation of utter metaphysical nothingness

I think so

so I think that what the transcendental object is

is it is

the cause of the universe if you will

except that this cause

is at what we would conventionally refer to as the end

it's what everything flows toward

it isn't something wound up which runs down

it's something diffuse which is gathered in to something

and this gathering in takes the form

not only of a progressive densification at the physical level

but of a progressive complexification at the organizational level

it also is a kind of a spiral

it has a temporal closure

so that each epoch of closure

happens more quickly than the ones which preceded it

and what I mean by that is

it took the you know the universe is twenty billion years old

the first five billion years it

well no

the first ten billion years it was all about star formation

and nuclear cook down

of heavier elements out of lighter elements

and then you get molecules

which signify a higher level of organization

which can only go on at a lower temperature

so as temperature leaves the universe

more complex systems become possible

and then ultimately polymers of great lengths become possible

so this complexification is occurring

and it is at each stage more rapid than the last

now the emergence of self-reflection

of self-reflection in our own species

is part of this

it isn't a fluke

it isn't an accident

it is obedient to the same natural law

which created these other systems

and the emergence of our own curiously alienated

and at odds with itself culture

is also a part of this phenomenon

we are initiating a kind of crisis

with the planet

it is in the same way that a fetus

will become septic

if it is carried too far beyond term

there is a crisis now

in the Gaia human system

the two must be parted

and the transcendental object

is this knitting together

of the organic intent of the planet

to somehow expel us

from the planetary environment

in some way which is very hard for us

to foresee and anticipate

because it is in fact

the transcendental object

I mean by appointing a committee

to look into this

we are not going to find out what it is

it is the face of the abyss

it is the transcendental object

it cannot entirely be known

it is the living embodiment

of Gödel's incompleteness theorem

you know science has taught us

that there are no mysteries

there are only unsolved problems

this is a mystery

not an unsolved problem

nevertheless

it is the narrowing vector

of our timeline

and as some of you probably know

in my opinion

around 2012 AD

we will cross into

cross through novel epochs

of concrescence

and the transcendental object

will be manifest

it is a very curious thing

it is something which is coming toward us

from the future

but we are creating

out of our intellectual

and technological anticipation

of deity really

I mean at times

I have spoken of it

as the flying saucer

it is the flying saucer

and it does enter history

at a certain moment

and it is coming toward us

but as we

go toward it

we are becoming

what we behold

in effect

what I am saying

is that the entirety

of human history

is a kind of

psychedelic apotheosis

where we are involved

in a hieroskamos

a kind of alchemical marriage

and what the

you know

what the next 25 years

are about

is advancing

to meet the bride

and the bride

is the unimaginable

and un

un

anticipatable

fulfillment of our heart's desire

you know

we are becoming

what we behold

our metaphysical

hypostatization

of deity

is becoming

a cultural

program

for

our

completion

and that is why

communication

is so important

because what we are

trying to do

is

articulate

this

vision

of

the

oversoul

of our

species

we are going

into a kind

of swarm

state

where there is

a

pheromonal

transformation

of our cultural

modalities

our

pheromones

are information

systems

and now

information

systems

ideologies

are being released

into the mass

psyche

that actually

set us up

to undergo

this cultural

compression

and

concrescence

that the experience

of the

transcendental

object

is

if you haven't read

William Gibson

you might give him

a go

his anticipation

of a cybernetic

future

is part

of

the anticipation

of the transcendental

object

and what Gibson is saying

in Neuromancer

and Count Zero

is

that

data

storage

in hyperspace

will become

conventionalized

the way the

grids of cities

are conventionalized

in three-dimensional

space

so that when you

jack in

to cyberspace

you will find

you know

you will see

the Bank of America

database

like an enormous

red neon

oblong

glowing off to your

left

and over the horizon

the Transworld

Airlines database

in other words

the dimension

of culture

which

for

fifteen thousand

years or so

has been

for purposes

of comparison

let's say

as thin as a thick

sheet of paper

I mean

what has culture been

it's been a few

mud huts

some brick streets

a cathedral

here and there

recently

and then more recently

a lot of knitted

together

electrified

cheap

construction

suddenly

the dimension

of culture

is about

to be

which is

orthogonal

to ordinary reality

is about to be

expanded

a hundred

a thousand fold

into

a complete

mind space

the cyber space

that

Gibson

is talking about

the psychedelic space

that shamans

have always

known about

is about to be

uh

activated

as a cultural

artifact

in high-tech

uh

high-tech

society

where we will

become whatever

we imagine

you know

you will move off

into this

electronically

sustained

realm of mind

at least that's

how i imagine it

i imagine

that passage

through the transcendental object

leads into

the imagination

and that the imagination

is really our true home

and that all of this

electronics

and culture

and art

and drugs

and magic

and ritual

is

about

the prodigal return

to the imagination

as a cultural norm

and

uh

and

uh

the transcendental object

represents the narrow neck

the narrowest place

the place

where

the phase transition

occurs

at least that's what i hope

that's what i feel

the symbiosis

with the hallucinogens

hallucinogens

is coaxing out of us

because we cannot go

to the stars

in the ape

mindset

you know

with ape politics

and

uh

it's just impossible

and very clearly

we are on the brink

of taking control

of our own

self-image

this

is what the long

cultural march

has been

this is the justification

if there is one

for science

is that it does

give us

a certain measure

of control

over stuff

and it's out of

it is the

the mirror of our minds

that we will make

out of stuff

that we will eventually

perform

this magical evocation

in front of

and walk

through

into

the time

outside

of history

the place

before history

another question

somebody over here

yes

Terence welcome to LA

people who have

listened so many hours

on the radio

I just want to say

we really love you

and I just think

that's important to say

all right

afterwards then

I take the show

on my ECR

and I get it

during the day

but anyway

I was going to go

to Mexico

to a little village

up in Oaxaca

and my companion

sort of convinced me

that it might not

be the best idea

because

while you are

looking around

for green men

you might find

some federales

or something

and it might not

be the best place

to totally

let go

so I decided

to grow some mushrooms

and that just ended up

on the low priority

of things

and I still haven't

grown them

but I was always

of the fantasy

that going

to this place

in Mexico

there was something

magic there

and there was this

quote unquote

morphic resonance

and I wanted

to know

if there was

a morphic resonance

wouldn't that be

in the negative

time space frame

and so my question

is one

do you buy

this morphic resonance

idea

and

that's the question

yeah

well

my

one of the best

people

one of the very

very best people

that I've found

in the

in the so-called

new age

is Rupert

Rupert Sheldrake

I mean

he and I are

tight

and

we've spent a lot

of time just

pushing these ideas

around

ultimately

I think

probably

he's very much

onto something

it's interesting

that it's such a

considered such a

radical idea

because think about

what it says

it says

that things

are as they are

because they were

as they were

one can hardly

imagine

a more conservative

philosophy

in fact

the

the problem

for this

philosophy

is to therefore

explain how

anything

ever

manages to

be different

how any kind

of novelty

could emerge

out of a situation

where the past

is so present

that it

configures

everything

so

Rupert's idea

and my idea

which I haven't

discussed except by

implication tonight

but I have this

notion

which is embodied

in the software

of a wave

of novelty

a way of

quantifying the

flux of the

Tao

and a wave

of novelty

would be

necessary

to

for Sheldrake's

idea

to support

the coming

into being

of new forms

I mentioned

this evening

in the main body

of my talk

the term

compressionism

I just sort of

begun to think

about this

I like it

because I like

impressionism

abstract expressionism

surrealism

I like it

because it's an

art movement

not a science

but I would

number the

compressionists

that come to

mind

to be

Rupert Sheldrake

Abraham

Frank Barr

and myself

bringing up

the rear

and

we all

four of us

have a slice

on it

each different

but each leading

to this same

set of conclusions

that there is

a set of

hidden variables

which we all

describe

differently

but that

these hidden

variables

are channeling

the development

of events

and what this

signifies is a

new way of

thinking about

time

and it's all

very much

in flux

Rupert is a

true

a true

great

scientist

and gentleman

if the theory

of morphic resonance

can be overthrown

it will be

and he will lead

the charge

our effort

when we get

together

much of our effort

is experimental

design

to try to think

of experiments

that would

disprove

the notion

because it is

a notion

which asserts

very firmly

certain strange

things about reality

should be

measurable

and discernible

so

morphic resonance

my novelty

waves

the dynamic

attractors

of Ralph Abraham

and

the

fractal hierarchies

of Frank

Barr

are all

embryonic

efforts

there is a feeling

in the air

a sense

of an idea

to be

nailed down

and I am convinced

you know

that in the next

ten or fifteen years

one of us

or somebody

we know

or somebody

sitting at the table

nearby

will

work it out

it is really

the great

intellectual adventure

of our time

and it

carries us

all along

with it

when this thing

is figured out

it is going to be

understandable

to all

of us

it is going to

end

the era

of the professional

abstraction

you know

for the new paradigm

to work

it is going to have

to transform

the lives

of hundreds

of millions

of people

the point

that has been missed

by the proponents

of

some of the more

narrow

versions

of what the new paradigm

is

the new paradigm

will be

an understandable

explanation

of the world

understandable

to whom

to you

to me

not

an abstraction

sanctioned

by a professional elite

and handed down

by the academy

to be

translated

into numbers

in order

to convince

straight society

of its existence

well that's

the beauty

and the wonder

and the delight

of time wave zero

absolutely

I mean this

this was produced

to convince

scientists

what this thing does

is it draws

graphs

of the ingression

of novelty

into time

I advance

novelty

as a new

primary quality

of the space

time continuum

on a par

with charge

spin

angular momentum

novelty

this is the realm

of the hidden

variables

and this program

this program

may

thousands of

experimentally testable

assertions this is not

smoke and mirrors stuff

you give it an end date

you give it a date of interest

and it draws a

mathematically defined graph of

its opinion as

to where the flux of novelty

and habituation these are

the two opposed quantities

novelty and habituation

where they fall vis-a-vis

this event system

so every time you activate

the program it fills

the monitor

with a screen full of

precise predictions

about known

historical phenomena

so it seems to me

if there were a body of

informed give and

take on the matter

we could quickly settle whether it's

just that I smoke too many little

brown cigarettes or

that this kind of

thinking is in fact

going to underlie and

restructure science

it's all right

I mean why should we assume

that the basic

qualities

of the universe

have been defined

as of

by modern physics

after all modern physics

doesn't explain

the unicorn

or the flower

so there must be

more

at work

in the universal mix

than we have

perceived

well I think I'll do

one more question

Robert

am I hearing this right

just like a historical

time graph

of human events

yes

that's exactly

what it is

it's a

way of looking

at the life

of an individual

or a society

and asking

the question

see

the way I think

this will be

this is good

because

the spirit

to eastern

philosophy

is the Tao

and the Tao

is the

howness

of the way

things happen

well we are

so accustomed

to allowing

these eastern

forms of thought

to remain

largely

formally

undefined

that we never

ask obvious

questions

about the Tao

for existence

for example

in the

Tao Te Ching

the opening

words in the

Weili

translation

are

the way

that can be

told of

is not

an unvarying

way

ok

it's a double

negative

it's not

an unvarying

way

means

it's a

varying

way

well anything

which varies

is modulated

that's a

mathematical

term

that has

precise meaning

so if the

way that can

be told of

is not

an unvarying

way

then it

can be

mathematically

described

as a

set of

integers

in flux

the

problem

then becomes

what

integers

well

that's a

long story

but

it's all

in here

it's

and I'm

you know

not

mad enough

to claim

that this

particular

take

this particular

set of

integers

is correct

I'm very

impressed

by its

successes

but I

am convinced

that a

theory of

this class

will eventually

explicate

time

is the

spirit

not

the time

of flat

duration

in the

Newtonian

universe

or the

very slightly

curved

time

of Einstein's

universe

but time

as lived

from moment

to moment

it flows

like a river

it runs

here quickly

there slow

and deep

here there

are cataracts

here there

are vast

lakes

form

and all

sense

of direction

is momentarily

lost

time

is

the

continuum

upon which

our entire

experience

of being

is deployed

and yet

up until

very recently

the only

model

we've had

of it

was this

flat

or slightly

curved

surface

that didn't

explain

the vicissitudes

and the

synchronicities

and the

mysteries

of our

own lives

now

if we

take a

fractal

model of

time

the kind

of fractals

that we

see in

the psychedelic

experience

and the

kinds of

fractals

that we

see when

we unleash

computers

in the realm

of pure

mathematics

then we

begin to

see the

time

of pure

experience

the time

that we

recognize

where every

day is

like every

other

but different

every year

is like

every other

but different

we grow

but we

stay the

same

we move

forward

at the same

time that we

move backwards

all of these

kinds of

feeling toned

complexes

about movement

and time

are handled

very well

in the

fractal

so the

Tao

what the

psychedelic

experience

has done

for me

above and

beyond

the heart

opening

and what

it's done

for me

as a

person

what it's

done

for me

as a

seeker

after truth

has given

me

this total

description

of reality

and I think

our senses

and our minds

and our hearts

are always

trying to

give us

a total

map

a total

mandala

is always

trying to

emerge

out of

the chaos

of

perception

but it

appears to

me that

it can

happen to

any depth

and if you

still your

mind with

psychedelics

and with

discipline

and you

look into

the black

rivers that

flow through

our hearts

and our

minds

eventually

you see

not only

the truth

of yourself

not only

the truth

of ourselves

but

formal

truth

the truth

of mathematics

and then

you have

sort of

made a

kind of

closure

and so

this is

what

this was

my

personal

meditation

in time

wave

zero

I

urge you

to

take a

look

at it

because

it's

the most

original

thing

that I

have

done

the rest

is the

descriptive

diaries

of an

explorer

well

footnoted

which I

share

with you

gladly

but this

other thing

was actually

you know

the logos

from on

high

that was

what

my

particular

relationship

to the

spirit

was based

around

the revelation

of this

particular

idea

because I

had no

interest

in the

I Ching

still

less

in mathematics

and all

of the

disciplines

that

impinged

on this

notion

but somehow

you know

I was

chosen

virtually

because I

was standing

around

when the

decision

was made

I mean

I really

believe

that

and

these

things

only mean

something

as they

are

communicated

but you

see

we have

great

anxiety

about the

future

and if

there were

in fact

fractal

maps

of the

future

then that

anxiety

would leave

us

and would

leave us

free

and in

one sense

I think

that's the

transcendental

object

it's the

manifestation

of the

spirit

the spirit

is with

us

throughout

historical

time and

space

but it

is

concretized

at

history's

end

well that's

all I have

to say

we're

five minutes

over

I

appreciate

your

being

here

very

much

time

is

good

time

to

time

to